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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone.

I just got my first reloading kit and once I figure out exactly where to start I would like to be able to load up some rounds for a Winchester 1895 in .30-03. Has anyone handloaded for the 03 and what brass do you resize? I have read the ..30-06 is too short. Also, do you have any good plinking loads or deer loads you would recommend?

Thanks for your time
 

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Greetings,

I am a little inexperienced with the 30-03. I have never seen any brass or reloading data for the cartridge. You may have to dig around just to find the brass and reloading data.

No doubt, there are people here that can help you...

moondog911:cool:
 

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WARNING: I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY DONE THIS.

The cartridge dimensions I have for the 30-03 are what Wikipedia claims. SAAMI doesn't list the cartridge, and I expect they haven't for a very long time (if ever?). From what the wikipedia claims, though, I see that SAAMI's specification (from ANSI/SAAMI Z299.4-1992) for case overall length (that's brass length, not loaded cartridge length) for the 270 Winchester matches what the wiki-monster claims for the .30-03. I have read elsewhere, too, that the 270 was based on the '03 brass length, but that was just some random claim on the 'net.

Now, having said that, Hatcher's Notebook (p.3) indicates that the 30-03 and 30-06 cases are the same, excepting that the '06 case is 0.070" shorter. From SAAMI's cartridge specs, I only see 0.046" difference between the 270 Win and 30-06 case lengths.

So, I suppose that one could, if one wished, neck up some 270 Win brass with a 30-03 full-length sizing die, and see whether that empty, formed brass would chamber easily and properly in your '03 chamber. According to what little info I have at hand, such cases would still be too short, but they might be closer. Necking them up may change their length, so it's worth a measure.

It is said that 30-06 ammunition can safely be fired in a 30-03 chamber, though accuracy may suffer. I have no experience with this, but it seems plausible IF the cases are identical other than brass length.

FWIW
 

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Just for reference ;

30-03 TOP

30-06 BOTTOM
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'
'
'
'
'

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
WARNING: I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY DONE THIS.

The cartridge dimensions I have for the 30-03 are what Wikipedia claims. SAAMI doesn't list the cartridge, and I expect they haven't for a very long time (if ever?). From what the wikipedia claims, though, I see that SAAMI's specification (from ANSI/SAAMI Z299.4-1992) for case overall length (that's brass length, not loaded cartridge length) for the 270 Winchester matches what the wiki-monster claims for the .30-03. I have read elsewhere, too, that the 270 was based on the '03 brass length, but that was just some random claim on the 'net.

Now, having said that, Hatcher's Notebook (p.3) indicates that the 30-03 and 30-06 cases are the same, excepting that the '06 case is 0.070" shorter. From SAAMI's cartridge specs, I only see 0.046" difference between the 270 Win and 30-06 case lengths.

So, I suppose that one could, if one wished, neck up some 270 Win brass with a 30-03 full-length sizing die, and see whether that empty, formed brass would chamber easily and properly in your '03 chamber. According to what little info I have at hand, such cases would still be too short, but they might be closer. Necking them up may change their length, so it's worth a measure.

It is said that 30-06 ammunition can safely be fired in a 30-03 chamber, though accuracy may suffer. I have no experience with this, but it seems plausible IF the cases are identical other than brass length.

FWIW
Thanks for the help. Looks like I need to make some phone calls and find out a lot of stuff on the 03. Have used the 06 in it and it does have less than desirable accuracy. I just cant justify changing it over to an 06
 

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Hey everyone.

I just got my first reloading kit and once I figure out exactly where to start I would like to be able to load up some rounds for a Winchester 1895 in .30-03. Has anyone handloaded for the 03 and what brass do you resize? I have read the ..30-06 is too short. Also, do you have any good plinking loads or deer loads you would recommend?

Thanks for your time
Ah yes .30-03, nice round. :)
 

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The primary difference between the 30-03 and 30-06 is the bullet weight. The 30-03 used a 220gr bullet, thus a longer throat. And a slightly longer case length. I would try using 30-06 brass and 180 or 220 grain round nose bullets seated a little long using any reasonable 30-06 load data. It seems like I remember seeing 30-03 data in one of P.O. Ackley's books, or possibly in Cartridges of the World. ---------------------- GeezerD
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The primary difference between the 30-03 and 30-06 is the bullet weight. The 30-03 used a 220gr bullet, thus a longer throat. And a slightly longer case length. I would try using 30-06 brass and 180 or 220 grain round nose bullets seated a little long using any reasonable 30-06 load data. It seems like I remember seeing 30-03 data in one of P.O. Ackley's books, or possibly in Cartridges of the World. ---------------------- GeezerD
Thanks for the tips and info I will see if I can find any info in either of those manuals.

Edit: I just checked cartridges of the world (using Google books) and it talks about the .30-03 but I did not see any load data listed.
 

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The books that I am referencing would be much earlier editions than the current ones. Also you can use 280rem brass that would yield a longer case but, I would stick with the longer round nose bullets in the 180-220gr range because of the longer throat. The original 30-03 loading was driven to fairly high pressure levels in an effort to match the 7mm mauser with the Krag's 220gr bullet. I don't think it would be a problem using 30-06 load data in your Winchester, just be a little conservative out of respect for it's age. It might also be a good idea to have the headspace checked. ------------------GeezerD
 

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280 brass is the exact same length as '06 brass, if it's being made to SAAMI spec. 270 is the longest of the '06 family (apart from the '03, obviously).

I'm struggling a little with the notion of the 30-03 being a high-pressure round compared to the '06, too. The '03's 220-gr RN bullet was only spec'd to be driven to 2300 ft/sec, which takes very little pressure from even a 24" bbl and faster-than-4895 powder. Can you help me understand where the notion comes from?
 

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Not high pressure compared to the 30-06. Higher pressure compared to the 30-40 Krag which it was intended to replace. A 220gr bullet @ 2300fps in a 30-06 using IMR4350 is a low pressure load in a 30-06, suitable for use in a model 95 Winchester. The Hornady manual shows the 270win and 280rem as having the same case length, but the 280rem is about .080 longer at the base of the neck than the 30-06. After resizing 280 cases in the 30-03 dies, they should be substantially longer than the 2.494 trim length of the 30-06.
I am assuming that the above mentioned 1895 is in good condition w/proper headspace.

If the 1895 were mine, I would baby it with 220gr cast bullets @ about 1600fps as it is quite valuable.-------------------------------------GeezerD
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not high pressure compared to the 30-06. Higher pressure compared to the 30-40 Krag which it was intended to replace. A 220gr bullet @ 2300fps in a 30-06 using IMR4350 is a low pressure load in a 30-06, suitable for use in a model 95 Winchester. The Hornady manual shows the 270win and 280rem as having the same case length, but the 280rem is about .080 longer at the base of the neck than the 30-06. After resizing 280 cases in the 30-03 dies, they should be substantially longer than the 2.494 trim length of the 30-06.
I am assuming that the above mentioned 1895 is in good condition w/proper headspace.

If the 1895 were mine, I would baby it with 220gr cast bullets @ about 1600fps as it is quite valuable.-------------------------------------GeezerD

No idea about the head space and not sure how to check it since the round hasn't been used since 1920. It handles modern 06 just fine minus the lack of accuracy.
 

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Your headspace can be checked by any competent gunsmith. The correct chamber dimensions should be available from Huntington Die Specialties in California. In view of your inexperience with handloading, I would recommend
getting a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and use a 30-06 load with a 220-250gr
cast gas checked bullet @ 1500-1600fps using standard 30-06 brass. That should solve the accuracy issue and be kind to your 1895.------GeezerD

Also, somewhere I read that the 270win was originally designed by necking down the 30-03 brass. So I suspect that if you fire-form
270win brass in a 30-03 chamber, the resulting case should be close to the original,
 

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Understood on the pressure question.

The Hornady manual shows the 270win and 280rem as having the same case length
Yes, that was my mistake; sorry. The 270 and 280 do have the same brass overall length. SAAMI's spec sheet, ANSI/SAAMI Z229.4-1992, is available for download at no charge from their website. One has to manually enter some URLs to get all the docs (centerfire rifle, pistol, and rimfire docs). The shoulder angles are also the same, but the base-to-shoulder length of the 280 is slightly longer than the 270 or '06 (and therefore, also longer than the 30-03, apparently). My guess is that either cartridge would work for forming the '03. I'm not certain whether one would encounter 'doughnuts' as a result of re-forming this brass to 30-03 or not, are you?
 

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I would fire-form them in the 30-03 chamber like we did in the old days. 10gr of unique and a small tuft of cotton to hold the powder in place, then fill the case with corn meal. When fired the corn meal puts just enough pressure on the case walls to form to the chamber.
It sounds kind of primitive but works great. Be sure to do this outdoors ( don't ask me how I know ). ------------------------------------- GeezerD
 

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Maybe some of this information will be helpful.

The -'03 cartridge was originally loaded with the 220 RN bullet to the lower pressures of that day. The original Win 95s were known to shoot the -'03 cartridge satisfactorily. However, when the cartridge was modified to the -'06 and the pressures were raised, the M95s gained a reputation for not being able to withstand the hotter load. Not that 1 cartridge would blow the gun up, but over a period of time, the M95 would get excees headspace, etc.

You have already seen that the longer case of the -'03 round is going to be a problem. Any shorter brass will eventually mark your chamber at the site of the case mouth.

Most people will use necked-up .270 cases, as the .270 Win does not require a change in headspace. Cases formed from .280 Remington probably will require a neadspace change. IIRC, Remington altered the headspace of the .280 to prevent accidental interchangeability of ammo.

Your -'03 can handle any sane lead bullet load. It should be loaded to lower pressure for jacketed than an -'06. IF you will accept the -'06 as a 48.000-50.000 CUP cartridge, then the -'03 should be loaded to about 40,000 CUP, which is on a par with other cartridges chambered in the M95.

No one has made any cases for the -'03 for many years and old brass may be age hardened and not be safe. Remember, the old cases will probably be a minimum of 50-70 years old. IIRC, someone issued a commemorative rifle in -'03 a number of years ago and a special, short run of -'03 ammo was made just for that occasion. If you can find a box or two of that, it might bail you out. Else, use .270 Win brass. Call RCBS and order dies' they will have heard of this problem before, I'm sure.

The modern-made M95s are fully -'06 capable.
 

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Have used the 06 in it and it does have less than desirable accuracy. I just cant justify changing it over to an 06
You can use the '06 brass with 180-220gr bullets, the original design for the round, and load it to '03 OAL specs. 40-50 years ago, when the '03 was still a discussion in gun magazines once in a while, that was typically a solution that kept the old rifles in business.

As pgeobc suggests, the metallurgy on that generation of firearms was not in line with today's '06 ammo by a lot. Lee lists a load of 62gr of AA8700 producing < 40,000psi with a 220gr bullet, while generating 2100fps. Another option would be a 75% charge of Trail Boss with a 225gr cast GC from Western Bullet Co.
 

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I wonder if he wouldn't be perfectly safe in using a 150 grain cast bullet and 14 grains of RedDot in a .270 Winchester case that's been necked-up to .308. This should fire-form the case to the chamber at modest pressure, while providing some plinking ammo in the process. If the overall case length is still a bit shy of the .30-03 specs, it may just mean that he won't need to trim cases back to length as soon as he might, were the M1895 chambered for .30-06. JMO
 

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Just do it the easy way and buy some new brass for your 1895 HERE.
 

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Wow! I'm glad that I found this thread. Even if it IS 3 years later! I've been wanting to buy some 30-03 brass for some time. Now I can contact that company and make an order. Expensive, but I can keep using them. I've got an old rifle that I've been warned shouldn't be fired with anything other than the correct brass...

Fred





 
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