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Discussion Starter #1
I know this topic has been done to death and there is a ton of information about this in various calibers, however I am looking for information on how to proceed with what I have. This is my first foray into loading the Ruger only loads and I am seeing some flattened primers. I understand that primers are not the best means of understanding pressure but i would like some input on what i am seeing.
The only issue is a flattening of primers. Cases don't fall out but eject quite easily with the ejection rod. Recoil is stiff but manageable. Unfortunately dont have access to a chronograph at this time.

The load: Starline Brass, 22.5 gr H110, CCI #350 Magnum pistol primer, 335gr CPB gas checked bullet.

The Gun: Ruger New model 45 colt bisley 5.5" barrel. (The cylinder throats have been reamed to .4525)

Hodgdon lists H110 loads for this from 20.5(min) to 23.5(max) and before anyone asks I did do some loads at the min, However, I foolishly neglected to keep those case seperate to compare primers and other issues
 

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Discussion Starter #2
The next batch I will probably start over at the minimum and work up again. The question is if these need to be broken down and reloaded or are they ok to shoot as is?
 

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I know this topic has been done to death and there is a ton of information about this in various calibers, however I am looking for information on how to proceed with what I have. This is my first foray into loading the Ruger only loads and I am seeing some flattened primers. I understand that primers are not the best means of understanding pressure but i would like some input on what i am seeing.
The only issue is a flattening of primers. Cases don't fall out but eject quite easily with the ejection rod. Recoil is stiff but manageable. Unfortunately dont have access to a chronograph at this time.

The load: Starline Brass, 22.5 gr H110, CCI #350 Magnum pistol primer, 335gr CPB gas checked bullet.

The Gun: Ruger New model 45 colt bisley 5.5" barrel. (The cylinder throats have been reamed to .4525)

Hodgdon lists H110 loads for this from 20.5(min) to 23.5(max) and before anyone asks I did do some loads at the min, However, I foolishly neglected to keep those case seperate to compare primers and other issues
My best suggestion is to but a chronograph, even a cheap one.

I do seem to remember somebody's assertion that some brand of primer tends to flatten at "normal" pressures.
 

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If I were flattening CCI Magnum primers, I would be quite concerned with my pressure - CCI is about as tough of primer as they come (thickest cup).

(For reference - Federal primers have the thinnest cup on the market, and also use the most sensitive compound, so they go off with the lightest strike).

While I don't believe anyone should be reloading without a chronograph, you also can't ignore pressure signs, no matter what the chronograph might say. Book velocity numbers are absolutely useless as safety standards - pressure signs are the key. If you hit a pressure limit 300fps below the published value, THAT IS YOUR LIMIT.
 

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Are those fingerprints on the primers, or are they impressions from the machined face of the recoil plate? If those lines are impressions, you're running too hot.

Those look pretty dang flat, but it's hard to tell - It looks like there's a sharp corner on the perimeter of the primer, and it's rolled over the bevel of the primer pocket. That's too flat. Pop one out and put up a picture. A side by side with your loaded and live primers would be interesting to see. It's hard to tell in the picture. There's a streak down the side of one of the cases that gives away which is which, in one picture, one looks "unsafe" while the other is "borderline". In the other picture, they look the opposite.

At best, they're "a little too hot." But "a little too hot" is still "too hot."
 

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On the second picture, the outer edge of the primer still has a rounded edge and not totally flatten. Just from that I do not think you have reached a unsafe load in your revolver. I would consider your load to be a max load in your gun and be very careful about venturing any further with a higher load.
 

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OK here is what I have learned. I just looked at the Hodgdon online data. While you are within the guides powder weights you have strayed from their data by using Starline brass and CCI magnum primers. They used Winchester brass and large pistol primers. So you need to back away from these loads. Personally I would either break them down or shoot them in a Casull. Leaning more towards breaking them down.

My 2 cents worth.
 

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Case: Winchester

Twist: 1:16"

Primer: Winchester LP, Large Pistol

Barrel Length: 7.25"

Trim Length: 1.280"



Bullet Weight
335 GR. CPB LFN GC


Starting Loads

Maximum Loads



Manufacturer

Powder

Bullet Diam.


C.O.L.


Grs.


Vel. (ft/s)


Pressure



Grs.


Vel. (ft/s)
Velocity: The speed of the bullet in flight.


Pressure




Hodgdon

H110

.452"

1.680"



20.5

1,109

19,200 CUP



23.5

1,240

28,000 CUP
 

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The new pictures help a lot.

They're definitely "flattening," but they're not terribly "flattened." It looks like there's a bit of a rim on the spent primer that you removed, and those FP impression are looking like they want to start cratering. I've shot a lot of rounds in the past that flattened and cratered primers worse than that, but I guess I've gotten used to the idea of having 10 fingers and 2 eyes these days...

That's your max load. If all of those primers look like these, then I'd say it's on the safe side of the line, but only a few thousandths of an inch on this side of the line!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If that's the max load should i keep the minimum at 20.5gr per hodgdon? I know h110 has a small window that you have to keep it in. If that's the case i might try 21.0 gr. Need to get a chronograph so i can get some "hard" data.
 

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I said it before, but I'll say it again - the chronograph isn't going to tell you that this is a safe load or not - it's only going to tell you how fast your borderline unsafe load is flying. The proof is in front of you. You have a marginally acceptable flattening of relatively hard primers - that should be all the indication you need. A chronograph will only tell you the speed it's leaving, not the pressure it's generating.
 

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I said it before, but I'll say it again - the chronograph isn't going to tell you that this is a safe load or not - it's only going to tell you how fast your borderline unsafe load is flying. The proof is in front of you. You have a marginally acceptable flattening of relatively hard primers - that should be all the indication you need. A chronograph will only tell you the speed it's leaving, not the pressure it's generating.
Agreed. IMHO back off powder charge a half grain for safety.
 

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All my Ruger loads look like that! I run to the top end of the book loads most of the time.
CCI mag and Win. primers are very close in power, Win are made for reg pistol and mag.
I personally would have no issue shooting these. If you plan to keep using the mag primers then you could back off .5 gn. I will say that these may start to be too hot when the outside temps are pretty hot like upper 90s to 100s.
 

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Don't reduce he H110 loads below recommended. H110 gets hinkey below minimum and can be dangerous. I contacted Hodgdon about reducing loads with H110 a couple years back and they said do not reduce they have seen bad results with that powder.

How is the extraction on those cases with the flat primers??
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Extracts very easily. They don't fall out by their own weight but light pressure on the extraction rod is all it takes. I played around with the spent cartridges last night. They slide in the cylinder no problem. I would say form fitted but not too tight.
 

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How about accuracy? If they are giving good accuracy then I wouldn't get overly excited over the primers. I would keep an eye on them to be sure the firing pin doesn't go thru.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well I think accuracy at this point is more my fault than the loads. I am getting a 5"-6" group at 25 yards. (open sights) I did the drill where you put 5 emptys in the gun and 1 live, spin it and shoot. I discovered these heavy recoil loads are making me flinch. My first cylinder full isn't bad but after that my groups start to get worse. That problem can only be resolved by time and practice. (Shooting standard loads I don't have this problem but I do want to take full advantage of this revolver)
 
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