[PaJerry]

HI, I'm new here. I searched for 9mm bullet crimp jump and read those threads. They appeared to have been closed before the lcr 327 fed mag was announced. So the question is. I reload 9 mm and 38 spl. I have alot of 9mm brass and like the idea of having a revolver that can shoot them. I've also been walking around with two moon clips of dummy ammo in my pocket for the better part of a month. I'm okay with how they feel and wear and I like how quickly they seem to be able to effect a reload....but...I'm not liking what I'm reading about the bullet jump. Does it happen that often? Should I just suck it up and start a new caliber run with the 32 H&R/327 fed?...but I like the moon clips, despise HKS speedloaders, and safariland speedloaders don't work with the lcrs due to the grip size. I can't find anyone willing to cut sp101 or lcr cylinders for them (noteablly TK Customs). S&W have several models that come with cylinders already cut for moon clips in 38 spl, BUT it still has a J frame trigger pull.

What are your thoughts? the lcr 9mm is not a problem if I keep the bullet weight low (85 to 115GN)? Just start 32 cal and keep looking for someone to cut a lcr cylinder? or settle for a J frame and a trigger job? Thanks for your thoughts.

PAJ

 

[KnurledNut]

First, welcome to the forum.

Second, I have had no issues with crimp jump with my 9mm LCR. I've shot approx. 200+ rounds downrange so far.

The only issue I've had was with ZQI ammo sticking so hard that I had to use a brass hammer to get the rod down.

 

[KnurledNut]

Thanks for both the welcome and the reply.

I'm thinking that I'm probably going to change from pistol to revolver for CC. I'm just hearing/feeling too much of the "Australian" solution to gun control. If that does happen, I can't imagine what the cost of a revolver will be. I like the 9mm round, but it is a pistol round and only a taper crimp....which is why I'm concerned about the jumping issue.

Have you tested for the jump, or just have not experienced any problem in firing the 9mm?

If the bullet does work its way out just a bit, does that change the POI significantly?

Thanks,
PAJ

No testing here as I haven't experienced any issues. Besides, why look for something when it ain't broke?

It's quite possible that Ruger has already solved the issue. My LCR was manufactured in August 2015.

 

[rammerjammer]

I've neve had a problem with crimp jump in either of my 9mm SP101s be it factory ammo or my reloads.

 

[PaJerry]

Thanks for your observation, 1st sgt.,

I love my 101s in 357 and 22...but they are much heavier guns which may generate a less violent recoil when fired....I think the problem with bullet crimp jump is the combination of a light weight gun with heavy bullets with hot loads or a super light crimp on lighter ammo.

I understand that crimp jump can be a problem with all cartridges not just pistol cartridges. I just need to know the magnitude of the problem. If it is a big problem with the lcr then maybe I need to give up on the idea of compact reload rounds moon clipped together in my pocket.

Dang, I love the lcr trigger and I really like the concept of a light weight revolver for cc, but I need more confidence that this problem is not a HUGE deal breaker for reliability.
Thanks again,
PaJ

 

[VA Fire]

I experienced severe crimp jump with Federal Aluminum, Tul Ammo, and American Eagle, all in 115gr. It was so bad it bound the cylinder and then dumped the powder in my hand once I cleared the stuck bullet. I discovered Winchester white box 115gr and Federal 124gr HST work great and I just stuck with them ever since.

 

[PaJerry]

Thanks, Va. So it seems like it's an ammunition problem? Cartridges with a good, tight taper crimp hold. That is promising...and gives me a reason to test both reloads and factory.

Comonti got me thinking hard last night about what I really want.

a lightweight revolver with internal hammer

reliable (one of the main reasons in my mind for a revolver)

moon clip ammo if possible (other types of speed loaders are too bulky)

really like the length and power of the 9mm

okay with safariland speed loaders (operation and a little less bulky)

really dislike HKS style speed loaders

love the smooth trigger of the lcr

I am okay with 38 spl if the cylinder could be cut for moon clips

I don't really want to start a new caliber, but the 327 has a 6th round. If I'm buying a revolver that needs to have a cylinder cut, is it worth the hassle to start a new caliber for the extra shot?

Hope this clears up all the thoughts that were swirling in my head last night with my original post.

Thanks for your thoughts.

PaJ

 

[KnurledNut]

I did post a range report when I first got my LCR.

http://rugerforum.net/range-reports/137321-lcr-9mm-range-day.html

 

[PaJerry]

Thanks, Knurled.

Nice range report. I'm beginning to regain some of my confidence in the 9mm version. I'm not too concerned with snappiness, in my mind that's just training (I do shoot M&P auto 380 and sig 293 380, both of them are a little snappy...9mm in revolver I expect to be even more snappy). More importantly, from what you are posting, my understanding is that the crimp jump problem isn't that big of a deal as long as you test it before you carry it.

Thanks for your patience and help.

PaJ

 

[Rover]

Just a thought. I don't have a 9mm revolver and don't know if you reload but if you do you could use a roll crimp on the 9mm cases if there is a cannelure on the bullet or a Lee Factory Crimp die to tighten the crimp. Also, the 9mm like the .45 ACP is a short, stubby round so seems to work better with moon clips than the longer revolver cartridges.

Pinnacle claims they can machine LCR cylinders for moon clips:

Cylinder Work - Pinnacle High PerformancePinnacle High Performance

 

[PaJerry]

Rover,

I do reload and I do use the Lee FCD. I don't think the 9mm FCD will actually roll crimp the case....and I wouldn't want to ruin the cases for my 9mm pistols. Your other information on Pinnacle machining lcr cylinders is fantastic! and only 1/2 the cost compared to TK. I reload for 38spl and know that I can roll crimp those cases without any problems. 38 spl moon clips typically are not as robust as 9mm...but I like moon clips. Thanks for the lead. I will check and see if their cutting requires a special moon clip, if they produce and sell their own, or where they recommend getting them.

Thanks again. Very helpful information from everyone...including the range report from knurled and experience from VaFree.

PaJ

 

[SafetyJoe]

You're probably not going to carry reloads so I wouldn't let it bother you. Standard pressure factory loaded 9mm shouldn't jump the crimp, but test some out and see before you carry them. When it comes to your reloads just load them with a little less gun powder and test those to see if any start to jump the crimp. Fire 2 or 3 shots and then take out the rest and measure the OAL again to see if they changed.

 

[hmendelson1946]

You should not use a rolled crimp on a 9 mm case or any case that is a straight wall rimless case. The mouth of the 9 mm case is used for headspace. If you use a rolled crimp, the case will not fit in the chamber. If you crimp a 9 9mm case, use a taper crimp die. I use Hornady taper crimp dies and adjust them to give a slight crimp to avoid deforming the bullet.

 

[PaJerry]

SafetyJoe,

I guess I keep talking myself out of what I really want...a 9mm revolver to use for cc. Both 9mm and 38 spl are the same size within 4 oz. of each other. I keep coming back to the 9mm but the crimp jump bothers me some. You are also correct in that, even though I have practiced carried two 9mm moon clips in my pocket for a month to determine how durable they are, I probably won't actually carry a reload. I can't get pass a scene where I may have to empty my pockets and once the reloads come out there is no avoiding what comes next.

All the guys here are correct. Test factory brands of ammo to see which hold crimp. I like your suggestion to back off my normal powder load and set the fcd for a tight taper crimp. I may even try 380 weight projectiles. They may be even better at holding crimp 'cause they should have less inertia.

HMendleson, yeah, you're right...I'm not going to roll crimp any 9mm. Even if I kept the revolver stuff separate from pistol stuff, nothing good can happen with it. It only takes one to get mixed up to possibly ruin your day. Thanks for the advice.

PaJ

 

[hmendelson1946]

The use of .380 bullets may cause another problem, flash cutting on the top strap. Might not cause any harm, but those cuts look nasty.

 

[PaJerry]

That's something I never heard before. What is "flash cutting"?
PaJ

 

[PaJerry]

Okay, I did some research and flash cutting appears to be that scoring of the bottom of the top strap between the cylinder and forcing cone (above the cylinder gap). I imagine that this similar to throat erosion in rifle chambers.

I think I understand your concern, but, if I stayed away from +P loads and stayed below published recommended pistol maximums for 95 and 100 gn bullets loaded for 9mm (not 380), why would flash cutting be more serious in the lighter bullets? Is it because of the speed of the bullet? I'm not being argumentative, I'm really very curious because I'm a relative newbie. I only have about 2 years of reloading experience and almost totally all of that with semi-autos. So revolvers are a new experience for me...any information would be helpful and appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

 

[snubby]

Is there a direct correlation between this phenomena, 'jump crimp' and weight of the gun?

 

[PaJerry]

Snubby,

My understanding is that it is a combination of lightweight gun, heavy bullets, hot load and an insufficient crimp. It is a matter of physics. The lighter gun has a much sharper recoil ie jerk. The heavier bullet has a higher coefficient of inertia ie the heavier the bullet the more it doesn't want to move. The lighter the crimp the less friction between the case and projectile so a light crimp would facilitate the heavy bullet staying in its place. It in effect becomes an inertia bullet puller that reloaders use to take apart bullets when they have a problem in the reloading process.

Crimp jump is not limited to 9mm. It happens in all calibers, but the traditional revolver calibers are designed to have a roll crimp which is a much stronger crimp than a taper crimp. Revolver cartridges space off their rim. 9mm is a rimless round designed for semi-autos. It headspaces off the mouth of the case...so it can only be taper crimped....a roll crimp would mess up the headspacing and possibly ruin the case for reloading especially reloading for pistol use.

My concern has been if crimp jump is a wide spread problem that many 9mm lcr users have experienced. Some have. Others apparently not. I reload a lot of 9mm, but it has only been for pistols which have different forces in play (okay, the same forces, but distributed differently in a pistol than a revolver.)

PaJ

 

[snubby]

Interesting-must be that ole for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction thing, guess that is what explains the lack of mention of the problem with the sp101 9mm as it is about 5oz heavier. Then again some of the long time lcr 9 owners report no issues at all; hope I am not sorry that I bought one.

I do agree with those who have posted that Ruger would most probably sell out of a re intro of the sp 9, even at a crazy price...used ones are going for the long dollar on all of the sites, crazy money for something you cannot even inspect -all one way sales......