Am I an Old Fuddy Duddy?
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Mitch ... hell no you ain't being an "old fuddy duddy". Rules are rules!
Not a fuddy duddy at all.
Ruger .44 Carbine, Security-Six, Service-Six, Mini-14, .30 Carbine Blackhawk
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I'm right behind you in age and my wife and I basically had the same set of rules at our house with the kids and some similar experiences.
Our youngest daughter was the only "slow to launch kid".
In high school, she had a part time job, saved her money and wanted to go to college.
After high school, your rule #2 was basically in effect.
Rule #2: You have to be going to school and have a part time job. Or have a full time job working towards becoming independent.
After about a year, she decided college was not for her, and she didn't have much of any jobs, so my wife tried to enforce Rule #2 and told her she had to ether:
Go back to school or get a job.... she could not just not be in her room eating Cheetos all day,
the rule seemed simple and fair enough to us.
She decided to move out and live with her boyfriend, who was still living with his mom and dad.
---and that is a whole other eye opening experience I had with daughters that I still do not understand.
Eventually, my wife asked the boyfriends mother why they let our daughter live there with their son.
She replied that our daughter had told them that we had kicked her out onto the streets.
My wife let her know that was not the case and told her what we had said.
We have not had much problems with grandkids as most of them live 3-1/2hrs away.
Although hearing them complain about their kids doing the same things to them that they did to us is hilarious.
Even moreso that they don't seem to realize (or don't want to acknowledge) they did the same things.......
Our youngest daughter was the only "slow to launch kid".
In high school, she had a part time job, saved her money and wanted to go to college.
After high school, your rule #2 was basically in effect.
Rule #2: You have to be going to school and have a part time job. Or have a full time job working towards becoming independent.
After about a year, she decided college was not for her, and she didn't have much of any jobs, so my wife tried to enforce Rule #2 and told her she had to ether:
Go back to school or get a job.... she could not just not be in her room eating Cheetos all day,
the rule seemed simple and fair enough to us.
She decided to move out and live with her boyfriend, who was still living with his mom and dad.
---and that is a whole other eye opening experience I had with daughters that I still do not understand.
Eventually, my wife asked the boyfriends mother why they let our daughter live there with their son.
She replied that our daughter had told them that we had kicked her out onto the streets.
My wife let her know that was not the case and told her what we had said.
We have not had much problems with grandkids as most of them live 3-1/2hrs away.
Although hearing them complain about their kids doing the same things to them that they did to us is hilarious.
Even moreso that they don't seem to realize (or don't want to acknowledge) they did the same things.......
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No sir I'm kind of like you in a lot of ways. Also left home at 17, was being a pain in the but and dad gave me the his way or the highway speech I took the highway. Joined the Army in 1977 at the age of 17. Learned a lot. I am a nut for being on time always at work at least 45 min. Early. I don't expect others to be this early but come on running to the time clock at 2:45 pm and our shift starts at 2:45 pm is ridicules. But happens every night. Man I'm glad I'm retired.
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659 Posts
Am I an old fuddy-duddy?
I'm pushing 70. When I came of age I could not wait to get out from under my parents roof. In fact I didn't, I left home and emancipated myself at 17. I was born at the tail end of the baby boomers whose parents grew up in a depression to face a world war. No wonder they call them the "Great Generation". My point is they were tough, had values and rules. As long as you lived under their roof you followed their rules with zero tolerance from them. So there was no "failure to launch" and they had prepared their offspring for that moment.While not as hard on my children (they would disagree) I did raise them to be self sufficient
and have a work ethic. You see where this is going don't you?
My wife and I have two apartments attached to our home that we use for guest. One is a two bedroom over my workshop attached to the main house that we lived in while building the house. The other is a one bedroom attached to the back of the workshop with a roof/deck from the upstairs apartment I built for my mother in her later years.
Starting with my youngest son 44 yo, so about 25 yrs ago the apartments became transitional housing for my children or grandchildren while recovering from hard times, going to college and preparing to get their own place. Of course we have rules without which there is no reason to ever move out.
My son did great. Got his cosmetology license in high school. Worked full time while completing an Associate Business degree. Decided to open his own business rather than pursue a BA and now owns several upscale salons.
During the 2008 crash my daughter and first husband fell on hard times and moved into the upstairs apartment for a while. My wife and I were the last ones to know they were leaving when they moved out. My daughter-in-law spilled the beans at Xmas dinner. They were under the false impression that we would be upset that the grandchildren would be moving out of town. That's not us. My ex son-in-law told me later "I would never have pursued a good job while living in the apartment". I replied so "I'm to blame for enabling you to be sorry as hell". My daughter is now doing well with her 2nd husband and starting a new career.
Then comes Grandson #1 who begged me to let his best friend share the apartment. Rule #1: You can't have anyone living with you. I relented and ended up with an adopted grandson (good thing). After a while they dropped out of college. Rule #2: You have to be going to school and have a part time job. Or have a full time job working towards becoming independent. My grandson couldn't find a full time job so I hired him temporarily and ended up with them both working for me for a while. I found out they were moving out when they had their trucks packed and ready to hit the road for summer beach jobs and continuous surfing. They are both doing well. My grandson 27 yo is regional manager for a commercial construction company. His friend is a real estate agent.
My granddaughter moved in and completely disregarded Rules #1 & #2 I learned a new term "Couch Surfing". You live on someone's couch until they kick you out and you have to go to another friends couch. My wife told her the definition of someone living with her was that they spend more than 3 nights. You know what happened. Couch surfing can be intermittent. The animal shelter had a sale and she got a pit bull. Rule# 3: You can't have a pet that can kick my Rat Terriers ass. We told her the dog had to go immediately. She disappeared for 3 days and came back without the dog but with new 3 day at a time friends. I finally had enough and said no more friends spending the night. So she disappeared again because I banned her friends. She now lives with her mother.
My son-in-law (granddaughters stepfather) said to me "This generation doesn't want to work or better themselves. All they want to do is live off their parents and smoke weed"
I replied "Did I miss that all the colleges closed from the lack of students"
Him "What do you mean"
Me "It's not all of them. It depends on how they were raised or how their friends were raised" Him "We need more teachers in the schools"
Me "It' s not the schools job to raise kids, it's the parent's" That's when my wife schussed me.
We now have Grandson #2 not in birth but in apartment dwellers. He is such a slob that my wife has given him and me a deadline to repair damage from a roof leak to move him to the downstairs apartment because there is no way he could have where he lives ready for guest if needed.
A few more rules in advance of sharing the event that prompted me to write this:
Rule #4 "If you are not going to school you have to give me 8 hrs a wk labor for rent". Rule #5 "Don't lie to me and do what you tell me you are going to do." Rule #6 "Tell me in advance if you are not coming home so I don't worry". I am very lenient with Rule #4 and have had many no shows without prior notice.
A few of days ago my youngest son called me and told me a client of his had about 12 cu yds of red oak mulch from the stumps of two trees they had removed from their yard and thought it would be good to spread it on our outdoor range.. He went on to say they had a small yard and a single gate so the mulch would need to be wheel barrowed to my trailer but he would like to pay a young man that does day labor for him to help me. I appreciatively declined the help and told him I had the grandson that owed me labor.
I scheduled with grandson to go to work 8:00 am Friday. My wife called him Thursday evening to remind him he was helping me. He told her he was on his way home and would be ready to go to work the next morning. He didn't come home that night or show up Friday morning. I was a little worried but not surprised. At 8:30 I left to load the mulch by my self. My wife was pissed. On my way to the job he called me and met me there.
When I ask him why he lied to his Grandmother. He said before he got home his buddy (also his present girl friends brother living in the same house) texted him and ask if he wanted to come over to play darts and have a few drinks. His phone died so he couldn't get back in touch with us and then he over slept. I replied with one word "Unacceptable" and then told him a little story.
My 85 year old best friend for forty years who passed away this past January shared this with me. A couple of years ago he needed the wind shield replaced in his 82 El Camino. So we made a date a couple of weeks out for me to meet him at the auto glass place and go to breakfast. I was running a little late and got there right on time. He got in the 4runner and said 2 more minutes and you would have been tardy. We laughed. He then told me that the day before his daughter had reminded him of the appointment and ask if he was going to call and remind me. He said he had told her "No. Mitch said he would be there. He will be there". I told my grandson "That's how I want to feel about you."
About halfway through the second load of mulch he was suffering from his hang over and ask me how many more wheel barrows it would take to finish. I said the trailer is half full and added "If you are going to hoot with the owls you have to be able to scream with the eagles" He ask me what that meant so I explained it. I also told him to be prepared for an ass chewing from his Dad (my oldest son) who I had called to report him possibly missing. My son was pissed but not concerned as he knows his son better than I do.
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I see the same things the OP talks about. Kids need parents to provide structure, and that includes rules. Parents wanting to be their child's best friend are not doing them any favors. They will make friends. Teens are going to mess up occasionally. When they are allowed to mess up really badly, I see it as a parenting failure. Friday night our firefighters cut a 16 y/o girl out of a wrecked car at 2:30am. Paramedics transported her emergency to a hospital in the next county. I remember thinking that I hoped she snuck out and no responsible adult knew that she was out on the road.
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My oldest daughter and SIL are excellent. Both work hard to provide for themselves and my three grandkids. They run a tight ship and the grandkids are held responsible. My SIL is a former military policeman and deputy sheriff. They both decided my daughter would be a stay at home mom until the kids were all in at least grade school. They did without new iPhones, new cars and giant screen TVs in order to provide a stable, supportive and loving environment for their children. It paid off. All three are good kids and none of them are into drugs/alcohol that we know of. My daughter now has a great job and they're doing pretty well financially. I'm proud of them for the child rearing choices they made and their current financial success.
Youngest daughter is a go-getter. Works hard. Makes good money. Hates liberals and anything to do with liberal philosophy. Great kid. She's married with no kids. I'm not a huge fan of my SIL though. He's alright. Works minimally. Rarely unemployed but also rarely works full time either. I'm old enough to still believe a husband should work full time if he's able bodied. Apparently his parents omitted that ideology from his upbringing. To be fair his upbringing wasn't great. Single parent household, etc, etc. He's not a bad guy but I see him as weak. Fortunately, he doesn't have any vices that I'm aware of and he treats my daughter pretty well. He has to. She's his sugar momma.
Youngest daughter is a go-getter. Works hard. Makes good money. Hates liberals and anything to do with liberal philosophy. Great kid. She's married with no kids. I'm not a huge fan of my SIL though. He's alright. Works minimally. Rarely unemployed but also rarely works full time either. I'm old enough to still believe a husband should work full time if he's able bodied. Apparently his parents omitted that ideology from his upbringing. To be fair his upbringing wasn't great. Single parent household, etc, etc. He's not a bad guy but I see him as weak. Fortunately, he doesn't have any vices that I'm aware of and he treats my daughter pretty well. He has to. She's his sugar momma.
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My rules have always been simple.
Rule #1. If you are living under my roof, you will live by my rules.
Rule #2. There are rules and you have responsibilities, manors, and will be respectable to EVERYONE or there WILL be consequences if not followed.
Rule #3. If you do not understand Rule #2, re-read rule #1.
I also had an "Open Door Policy". You have ANY kind of problems, come to me first, good or bad. All turned out great (including Daughter-in-laws and a Son-in law) and same for all the Grandkids.
There ARE some people out there with kids that shouldn't even be allowed to have pets.
Rule #1. If you are living under my roof, you will live by my rules.
Rule #2. There are rules and you have responsibilities, manors, and will be respectable to EVERYONE or there WILL be consequences if not followed.
Rule #3. If you do not understand Rule #2, re-read rule #1.
I also had an "Open Door Policy". You have ANY kind of problems, come to me first, good or bad. All turned out great (including Daughter-in-laws and a Son-in law) and same for all the Grandkids.
There ARE some people out there with kids that shouldn't even be allowed to have pets.
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Hows that? You did get that I am talking about adults that are entering college or just getting started towards being independent.Don't know if your a "Fuddy-Duddy", but you are far too lenient.
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I think you're doing the right things. There are rules and consequences for not following those rules.
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I was a late in life uh oh for mom and dad. Dad was 43 and mom was 35. Dad was a WWII vet and no BS kinda guy. When I graduated from college and came home he told me two things as I walked in the door. #1 Get a hair cut or find someplace else to stay. #2 I got you a job until you get a job. You start Monday, it was Friday. No slackers allowed in his house.
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I think you need to give us your definition of "Adult at what age" ?????
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One time one of my step daughters phoned to ask if she could come "home" to stay for a while until she found a new job. I told her she was always welcome - there was just one little thing. Her reply: "I KNOW -- I have to paint all the louvered doors!" (we had a lot of them, on all closets, etc.) It worked out very well for all concerned.
A friend of ours was raised by a mom whose husband deserted her leaving her to raise 8 kids by herself. She did a remarkable job - as long as she felt it was her responsibility. Upon graduation from high school she presented each of them with a set of luggage! The only one who did not get the message, but stayed at home and even refused to pay rent although he had a job, came home one day to find all of his belongs out on the lawn. Message delivered at last.
A friend of ours was raised by a mom whose husband deserted her leaving her to raise 8 kids by herself. She did a remarkable job - as long as she felt it was her responsibility. Upon graduation from high school she presented each of them with a set of luggage! The only one who did not get the message, but stayed at home and even refused to pay rent although he had a job, came home one day to find all of his belongs out on the lawn. Message delivered at last.
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Well since I specified "going to college and preparing to get their own place" lets say 17-18 should be considered an adult. I would think since your avatar is ARMY you could agree that if one is old enough to die for their country then they should be treated as an adult. That is my definition any way. But to be explicit to my story.
Son was 18.
Grandson #1 and Friend were 21 at the time.
Granddaughter was 19 turned 20
Grandson #2 is 24
Edited to delete my mistake in confusing post
I lived alone in my Dad's home 5 days a week minimum when I turned 15. I got hungry so I got a job, stayed out of trouble and went to school every day even though I could have done anything I felt like. Thing is, I had no safety net to bail me out and I knew it. So, adult at what age, that will be answered the minute the kids have no other choice but to swim in the deep end of the pool.
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So you get why I want labor not money. It get help while they hopefully learn something. For example: Hauling this mulch my grandson learned how to figure the cu ft of a bucket (cylinder) and the trailer (cube) then weigh a bucket full of mulch and use those values to determine if we could safely haul a full load. It also gets me motivated to get some home projects completed.
Good for her! When I was growing up the term for that was called "Breaking Your Plate". When you came home found a broken plate on the front porch and the door locked (not normal) it meant it was time to leave.
My biological father deserted my mother when I was 5 and my brother was 3. My stepfather (Daddy) 13 yrs my mother's senior married my mother when I was 9 and moved us from the city slums to the country. He was hard on my brother and me but raised us to be responsible men.
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