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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So i ordered a new rifle in 7mm rem mag to make into my new intermediate/long range elk rig. In the past ive loaded 150 gr gameking spbt's in front of 63 grains of IMR4350 in my 7mags but this gun will be set up to shoot a little farther and I wonder how the gamekings will hold up on long shots. Thinking of the 160gr accubond or one of the ttsx's. Anybody have anything I aughta try? I've seen the berger vld hunting bullets shed the jacket on impact and penetrate less than 6" at 300 yards on elk out of clients rifles but I've never tried them myself, so I'm leaning away from those unless somebody has some first hand experience with em.
 

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Just something I noticed,

but every 7mm case I've picked up, the neck was split,

I think they are loaded 'hot' from the factory.

whats the distance, and how many fps are you wanting the bullet to travel?

I usually try and duplicate factory loads, without ever exceeding max compressed loads.

Hornady makes ballastic tips for the 7mm, that fragment on impact. it might be something different you would want to try.

I can't really recommend anything, I don't know what it takes, to knock a moose over with one shot.

I seen a guy shooting a moose with a .375 Ruger and the moose jumped up after he shot it! then he shot two more times. (look on youtube)

and that is a big gun!
 

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I have used the 160 Nosler AB to good effect when it was pushed by a full load of IMR 7828. It shot very accurately from my rifle and was not as affected by temperature as some other powders. A few elk have found their way to my freezer with that load. I have used the GK bullet on mule deer and it worked quite well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok. I've killed deer and all with gamekings out to 400 yards but they didn't expands as well as if hoped they would at those velocities. I'm hoping for 3000-3100 fps at the middle and a good bc. Sierras new matchking is supposed to have a bc over .780 I hear.......... too bad they don't have anything that high in a hunting bullet
 

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With the opportunity to hunt with several guys that used a 7RM, and owning three of them myself, I think one of the more reliable bullets I was able to observe was the Hornady 162gr BTSP. Accuracy is very good, and I don't think I can recall any recovered bullets, even on elk. IMR 7828 was my go to powder, lots of it.
 

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I have taken down several elk with 168 VLD Bergers in my Savage 11/111 with a 26 inch barrel and a 1 in 9.5" twist rate.
Here are some reloading specs for that round from their manual:

Berger 168 VLD (from the Berger manual)

IMR 4350: Min - 52.5 (2596) Max - 58.3 (2920)
Hybrid 100V: Min - 52.5 (2614) Max - 58.5 (2846)
IMR 4831: Min - 53.5 (2648) Max - 59.4 (2887)
Alliant Reloder 19: Min - 56.0 (2673) Max - 62.4 (2944)
H4831 SC: Min - 57.0 (2618) Max - 63.4 (2904)

AA 3100: Min - 58.0 (2619) Max - 64.5 (2888)
Alliant Reloader 22: Min - 58.5 (2701) Max - 65.0 (2984) *** I run 67.0 for my 168's in my 7Mag
IMR 7828 SSC: Min - 59.0 (2721) Max - 65.3 (3002)
Viht N165: Min - 58.5 (2617) Max - 65.3 (2892)
Viht N560: Min - 59.0 (2718) Max - 65.6 (3014)
Norma MRP: Min - 59.0 (2716) Max - 65.7 (3007)
Alliant Reloader 25: Min - 61.0 (2731) Max - 67.8 (3012)
AA Magpro: Min - 61.0 (2669) Max - 68.0 (2984)
Norma MRP 2: Min - 63.0 (2726) Max - 68.5 (2970)
H1000: Min - 62.5 (2669) Max - 69.5 (2987)
Ramshot Magnum: Min - 63.5 (2685) Max - 70.7 (3019)
Retumbo: Min - 65.5 (2721) Max - 71.2 (2975)

Hornady 162 SST seem to be very accurate, just haven't used them for hunting yet.
 

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I primarily shoot small rodents but have kicked off a 7mm RM project recently with expectations of targeting large animals, like elk.

My tendencies are to use 162 grain bullets and Hornady is one of my favorites, possibly the new ELDX. Other bullets of consideration are the Barnes long range bullets like the 145 grain and the regular tipped 150 grain. My rifle has a 1-9 twist.

I am accumulating lots of brass, CCI 250 primers, and have enough H1000 powder with plans to try out IMR 7977.

Almost all the once fired brass, from other rifles, that I have checked out have excessively tight necks, the neck walls measure over .015 inches and .284 diameter bullets will not easily slide into or even go into fired case neck mouths. Common chamber neck reamer dimensions are .315 inches.
 

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For elk with the 7mm RM, I like the Accubond. For shorter range elk, or for moose, make mine a 160 Swift A-Frame. A-Frame's aren't cheap, but if there's a way to make them fail, I've yet to find it.

I can't really recommend anything, I don't know what it takes, to knock a moose over with one shot.
Not really sure what to make of this - advice not backed by experience is nothing...

Hornady makes ballastic tips for the 7mm, that fragment on impact. it might be something different you would want to try.
Ballistic tips - in their form - are NOT elk or moose bullets. The Hornady Interbond looks like a ballistic tip, but it's not the same type of bullet - and it's dangerous to compare "ballistic tips" like the A-max, ELD-X, or SST to the bonded Interbond. The SST is CLOSE, but it's not an elk bullet - definitely not a moose bullet. The interbond, however, is NOT a ballistic tip bullet, just because it has a polymer expansion-driving tip.

Killing 600lb+ game species is about penetration - ballistic tip, varminting bullets have no place in this game.

Just something I noticed, but every 7mm case I've picked up, the neck was split, I think they are loaded 'hot' from the factory.
Maybe you're "picking them up" because guys are leaving them on purpose - if they're split, they can't be loaded again, so they get left on the deck.

I've fired thousands of rounds of 7mm RM, I tend to get 15-20 loads on my brass, and usually my primer pockets are first to go, not my case necks.
 

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The accubond by nosler is a great choice, as well as the hornady gmx. I have used the nosler silver ballistic tip, but it tends to fragment normally. Most guys use them on bear in my neck of the woods.
 

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ballistic tips

Ballistic tips - in their form - are NOT elk or moose bullets. The Hornady Interbond looks like a ballistic tip, but it's not the same type of bullet - and it's dangerous to compare "ballistic tips" like the A-max, ELD-X, or SST to the bonded Interbond. The SST is CLOSE, but it's not an elk bullet - definitely not a moose bullet. The interbond, however, is NOT a ballistic tip bullet, just because it has a polymer expansion-driving tip.

Killing 600lb+ game species is about penetration - ballistic tip, varminting bullets have no place in this game.

what's your take on ballistic tips, vs regular lead or copper jacketed bullets?

I've seen ballistic tips at the range, and after they hit the target, you can see a little poof of white smoke, after they've made contact with the target.

I thought ballistic tips were suppose to make a bigger hole in target, but I've never been willing to fork out the money to find out. or if its just a gimmick. especially when lead or copper jacketed bullets have been around forever.
 

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This is not an attempt to intrude upon a query directed to VT and not an attempt to preempt expected good stuff but being a subject tossed out there for all to comment on here goes:

The Hornady SST is a lead core jacketed bullet like Nosler Ballistic Tip (father of plastic tip bullets) but I have found them to be tougher (harder).

I have never shot an elk but upon seeing the effects of a hi vel Nosler BT bullet on a varmint I would not use that bullet on an elk. Looking at an unopened box of Nosler BT's it says something about recommended game being deer or antelope.

Hornady claims in their promotion of the ELDX bullets, that hollow point bullets often have erratic wound characteristics as opposed to tipped bullets.

My current policy in regard to the subject involves my experience in killing deer and soliciting the advice of as many successful elk hunters as possible. I have never killed an elk, thus I have chosen to solicit advice.

Advice at this point: .270 Win minimum, .338 215 grain partition good, got one every year with a .22-.250, wife shoots them with a .243, .300 Win mag with 180's, use your .375, don't use .338 200 grain Hornady Interlock, get that .375 re-barreled to a .300 Win Mag, .30-06 perfectly adequate, 7mm RM ultimate North American hunting caliber.

At this point, given my policy of a maximum range of 400 yards, deep penetration combined with near maximum wound trauma I am tending towards the Barnes 7mm 150 grain Tipped solid copper bullet. A hit up to 400 yards using that 150 Barnes bullet would have enough velocity to expand the bullet, like peel the petals back, the bullet would go deeply into the beast even at an angle to destroy vital organs and smash essential bones.

My highly successful experiences using the 100 grain 6.5mm on deer gives me confidence that the Barnes 150 grain 7mm bullets would have similar effects on elk.

Testing on cardboard boxes filled with wet news paper and some large size cow bones is planned at ranges from 100 yards to 500 meters.
 

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I have had good success on elk with the 140 gr Barnes TSX or TTSX over Retumbo powder with my 7mm. I have only recovered one of these from an elk, it looked just like the picture in the Barnes ads - perfect expansion and near total weight retention.

I have not shot much over 200 yards though so not much help at the longer ranges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok. Ive seen what the ttsx can do up close and at 400. Excellent weight retention and penetration. But i lean towards the accubond because of the higher bc. My plan is >500 yard elk killin so i really need both haha anybody used the e-tip or gmx on long range big game?
 

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Possibly, advertised BC's on Nostler Accubond bullets might be sort of inflated. Published BC's have been used as a marketing device to sell bullets.

In my amateur and somewhat anecdotal ballistic testing I have compared various tipped bullets out to 500 meters and have not discovered any practical trajectory difference in them provided the velocity, weight, caliber, and general configuration like tipped, boat tail is basically similar. Of importance is how well the bullet is stabilized, should it wobble down range ballistic properties will adversely affected, like not get there.

Of importance is the concept of drag form factor. The Ballistic coefficient, BC equation is BC= SD or sectional density divided by form factor. BC = SD / FF. Conversely FF = SD / BC. What all this means is that to obtain a hefty BC the weight of the bullet or SD needs to be increased and if that happens the velocity will be lower and more drop will occur.

Should you want a zippy bullet that will fly flat and minimize hold over go for a lighter bullet with a good form factor. BC = SD / FF and the really zippy bullets have BC's measured by G7 BC's and the lower the FF or form factor the more streamlined the bullet will be. A FF of one compares the FF of a given bullet to the standard G7 model. A FF or less than 1 has less drag than the FF of the standard bullet.

Of additional consideration is the hydrostatic shock effect. Basically, what this means is transfer of energy via body fluids to vital organs like brain and nervous system. Velocity is a key factor to make this occur. In addition to the hydrostatic effect extensive wound trauma is a required factor. Possibly the ultimate bullet would inflict extensive wound trauma with high impact energies with flat trajectories and minimal wind drift.

One of the bullets I intend to test is the 145 gr. 7mm Barnes tipped long range bullet. I hope to get those up to 3150 fps or so out of my 26 inch long 7 RM.

Of note is the Nosler E-tip. I would expect these are really hard bullets with long bearing surfaces and the Nosler manual advises to start loading these at lower levels, thus lower velocities.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1102/1102.1642.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ive shot e-tips in a .300 win mag but just on targets. Accuracy was great but again, lookin for actual game experience. And i understand what you're saying about inflated bc's. My friend is loading the 160 accubond in his 7mag. Absolutely loves em. Thoughts on the 154 or 162 grain SST'S? Reading alot of good stuff about em. I've always loaded sierras. So yalls insight on other brands is sorely needed.
 

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Ive shot e-tips in a .300 win mag but just on targets. Accuracy was great but again, lookin for actual game experience. And i understand what you're saying about inflated bc's. My friend is loading the 160 accubond in his 7mag. Absolutely loves em. Thoughts on the 154 or 162 grain SST'S? Reading alot of good stuff about em. I've always loaded sierras. So yalls insight on other brands is sorely needed.
Used the 162 SST for long range targets with great accuracy and consistency. Will be my elk round for up to 500 yard shots.
 
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