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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a member/participant in several different gun forums. Most of them
have a portion of the forum devoted to Concealed Carry. (so far, a Yawn)
One of the common themes in most is "how can I be better prepared", or
"how can I be 'faster' to present my gun", or any one of several other
variations on that. The one item that, IMO, most are either discounting
or flat out ignoring, is AVOIDANCE.

Let me say here, that I have not been involved in a gun fight, and
NOTHING would please me more than to still be able to say that twenty
years from now. Thus what I say here is from doing a lot of reading
and forming my own opinions, based on what many people that HAVE been
involved in gun fights have to say (most of them either past or
present LE).

One of the discussions is on having a round in the chamber vs only a
loaded magazine. The scenario is one of coming up on someone walking
down a row of vehicles and checking each door to see if they are locked.
In that scenario the clown walks up to the (potential) BG and says
"what are you doing", only to be met with a knife and a death threat.
Humm . . . . I'm thinking somewhere between terminally dumb and
attempting a Darwin award; do you agree?

Would that level of stupidity be off-set by a chambered round, or would
it be FAR better to back off, and call for LE as you quickly moved away?
I'm sure there will be many that will whine "BUT IT'S . . MY . . CAR!"
or something else to establish their excess level of testosterone.

I guess what I'm asking is more of why not just plan on surviving a non
confrontation and doing what you can safely do, to "catch the bad guy"?
Why does a permit suddenly make you an un-sworn officer? Why does a
permit mean that you MUST be in the forefront of every negative
situation you come across? WHY are you "less of a man" if you are a good
witness and leave law enforcement to the professionals?

Is there . . really . . something wrong with avoidance? I think not.
 

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I agree

My first instinct would be to avoid confrontation. In the rare situation that it can't be avoided I still have my weapon. I would guess the majority of persons would choose avoidance as the first option, don't you think?
 

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It is real easy to type like a bad ***. But it is a lot harder to walk the walk. I try to be realistic in CCW conversations but I am quickly shouted down by "sheepdogs" who likely don't even have a concealed carry permit. I know I don't want to be a hero. I just want to get myself and my family home safely. I do not want to spend the night at the police station explaining why I was out there playing sheepdog or even worse, get one of my family members injured or killed. I am not obligated to stop robberies or property crimes. One of the last things I would do is engage a thug over property. Everything I own is insured. Why should I put myself at risk or my family over property? Even if it is my car it is insured. I would gladly pay the deductible to avoid spending the night at the police station being treated like a felon.
 

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It is real easy to type like a bad ***. But it is a lot harder to walk the walk. I try to be realistic in CCW conversations but I am quickly shouted down by "sheepdogs" who likely don't even have a concealed carry permit. I know I don't want to be a hero. I just want to get myself and my family home safely. I do not want to spend the night at the police station explaining why I was out there playing sheepdog or even worse, get one of my family members injured or killed. I am not obligated to stop robberies or property crimes. One of the last things I would do is engage a thug over property. Everything I own is insured. Why should I put myself at risk or my family over property? Even if it is my car it is insured. I would gladly pay the deductible to avoid spending the night at the police station being treated like a felon.
I agree. I would use my a gun as the last resort.
 

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First of all thanks for posting this interesting thread.
I wholeheartedly agree that AVOIDANCE is always my first line of defense. I am aged way beyond being any kind of bad @$$- as much as it pains me to say so. LOL. Fortunately my wife and I live in a low risk area where the biggest crime is when the deer eat my yard plants. Occasionally we must travel to the Big City for shopping, etc. I always carry during those trips with one in the pipe. Very aware of our surroundings and do not knowingly travel into "those parts of town". Situational awareness is foremost for me. The wife is blessed with her own 6th sense about those kind of things too. She also carries. I certainly advise to always avoid placing one's self into dicey situations. However if bad happens we are as prepared as civilians can be. I learned years ago that I am no Doc Holliday or a Wyatt Earp. Like the OP stated I too have carried a long time and hope I NEVER have to present a loaded firearm at a target except the at splatter targets at our Range. To borrow a familiar phrase from a well known beer ad "Stay careful my friends." I'm no longer a 19yo Infantryman. Just an old guy who wants everyone to live a long and happy life.
 

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I agree.

I'd rather use my cellphone first and depending on the situation, call 911 or the PD's non-emergency number.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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If you draw a weapon there are always consequences. If you fire it they become greater and if you shoot someone much greater. The problem is you may be 100% in the right and still spend time in jail. The best way is to walk, run or drive away. I have posted an Evan Marshall piece on "The Dangers of Intervention" here many times. I am not a cop nor will I act like one.
 

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It is real easy to type like a bad ***. But it is a lot harder to walk the walk. I try to be realistic in CCW conversations but I am quickly shouted down by "sheepdogs" who likely don't even have a concealed carry permit. I know I don't want to be a hero. I just want to get myself and my family home safely. I do not want to spend the night at the police station explaining why I was out there playing sheepdog or even worse, get one of my family members injured or killed. I am not obligated to stop robberies or property crimes. One of the last things I would do is engage a thug over property. Everything I own is insured. Why should I put myself at risk or my family over property? Even if it is my car it is insured. I would gladly pay the deductible to avoid spending the night at the police station being treated like a felon.
Very well stated.
I agree.
 

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if a person carries a weapon, decisions must have been made. the main one is the decision to use the weapon when that is the last option. (please, I'm not talking about nutjobs, people who show off a weapon, or people who think waiving a weapon around is a deterent, or having a carry weapon is cool or tactical. you've probably seen all the above on youtube, home of "gun experts".)
stopping a threat is the last option, before that there is "situational awareness" and avoidance. bad guys are either crazy and will shoot anybody or they're out looking for victims to rob. victims can look like old folks or moron's texting or dancing to the tunes on their phones, victims can look like rich folks coming out of a high end store with bags and boxes. bad guys look for victims who have habits and their brain on cruise control- walk the same route, jog the same path, look like they are sleep walking.
when your out, look for victims, they're everywhere. drive around your neighborhood and spot the houses that would be most likely for a home invasion. think like a bad guy-- fun, new hobby.
don't be a victim. (if you carry, do you have your lawyer on speed dial?)
 

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married to a confrontational nut for 17 years. learned the fine art of selective hearing and the common sense to turn with a smile and calmly walk away.
legally carried a sidearm since the mid '70's only needed to uncover it once. that was because two homeless vultures were circling me thinking I was an easy mark for the two of them. they were quite surprised when I squared off and uncovered the SP101, demanded they step back and go on their way. the truth is, I might have been able to rip off their heads and pee down their necks anyway, but just in case, I chose the route of least resistance. next move was to call the police and inform them there were two misfits looking for a daisy and where. my goal is to never shoot another human being.
one thing that has helped me is to always be aware of everything and everyone in my immediate area. Wild Bill made a mistake once, I will not.
 

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I get such a kick out of watching the tattooed tactical and wouldbe standup comedians on youtube showing off their guns and gun fighter expertise. you have to realize that in most cases these people are shills for the firearms/ammo industry or they're just silly people with a camera.
I'm retired and not in a hurry, so I might take an extra lap around a parking lot to find a place to park with a clear route to the store entrance. I hate stores where I can't look inside before entering. I don't do crowds, parking garages, late nights, certain neighborhoods, etc., etc.
when I was sitting in the CCW class and looked around at some of the others in that class I got a sort of a queasy feeling. I've had that feeling several times at public ranges. (why is the ceiling shot out?)
some of my greatest fears these days is getting into the crossfire of a rolling gun battle (gangs)on the highway or being down range when the cops start blasting (Police Fire 84 Shots At Man And Miss 83 Times).

(so when you see an old guy hobbling up the street with one hand stuck down in his messenger bag, if he pauses and looks around, is he confused or just checking? )
 

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My guns are to protect me and my family AFTER all other options have failed. Using feet to get out of a bad situation is always Plan #1.
 

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I agree, a real bad *** walks away! I was never one to start trouble or take an invitation to throw down,but after carrying you really make sure you stear real clear of trouble.
 

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When I carry, I am even more careful about avoiding confrontation than I am when I'm not armed. I've had to draw my pistol once (as a "civilian"), but I did everything I could to avoid that confrontation (some people just won't let you walk away).

In the scenario given (witnessing a car prowl), my weapon of choice is a cell phone; I always have it with me when I'm carrying my pistol. I can't say for certain what I would do if they were breaking into my car, but I would probably yell something from a safe distance (and behind cover).

When the police confront criminals, they not only have a gun, they have a radio, body armor, backup and legal coverage. All I would have is the gun.



Jim
 

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Why assume all those folks don't already practice "avoidance"? It could be that they are in fact very attentive so they ask questions based on their weaknesses. "Avoidance" does not guarantee anything, but knowing how to use their weapon does guarantee their best chance of survival.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Biggred said:
Why assume all those folks don't already practice "avoidance"?
Because they went into a confrontation rather than walking away.
How . . . else . . . would you define it? :rolleyes:
 

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I haven't had to use a firearm in a hostel situation since I was in the Marines 50 years ago. I don't carry to prove anything to anybody. My days of being a BA are long behind me. I carry to stay alive. I agree that avoidance is the best course of action.
Just look at what has taken place in the media. There have been several instances where police officers have made to be the bad guy because of their actions. Right or wrong, they are tried and found guilty outside of the courtroom.
If law enforcement can be liable for doing their jobs, imagine what an attorney can make someone look like an evil person. I reload my ammo and I can just picture an attorney making me look like a Rambo because I reload just waiting to shoot someone.
If I were in a life or death situation, I would defend myself. I would never go looking for trouble.
 
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