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Discussion Starter #21
Considering loads are much higher in cars, automotive oils and grease are just 10x better. than gun oils. Most likely whatever you buy as "gun oil" is really motor oils, just 10x more expensive.
 

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brnwlms, I was a gunsmith for 31 years and during that time, I would estimate at least 50% of the guns that came into my shop for repairs were "lubrication related". Most of the time it was due to over lubricating. What happens is the carrier in the oil or grease evaporates. Oil begins to thicken to a molasses like product that actually increases friction instead of reducing it. Grease start caking up and does much the same. This is very common with guns that are stored for several months without being used but it can happen in just a few weeks in dry climates. Any spring loaded part can develop enough friction where it no longer functions the way it was designed.

The secondary affect from over lubricating is dirt and powder residue build up. Burnt powder residue is very abrasive carbon particles and when mixed with oil or grease, it forms a product just like rubbing compound only more aggressive. When parts are wet with oil or sticky with grease, powder residue will do two things .... it will build up to a point where it impedes part movement and/or it will wear the mating surfaces on the parts.

Added friction from over lubrication is way more dramatic in cold climate conditions that can render a gun useless (or unsafe). I've seen a good many bolt action rifles where over lubrication caused the firing pin to stall and prevent the gun from firing .... thus wasting an expensive hunting trip.

In many cases, a good deep cleaning in an ultrasonic tank will restore the gun back to serviceable condition. Once the residue is dissolved with a good solvent (Hoppe's #9 for small jobs, kerosene for ultrasonic cleaners). Parts will again regain their needed movement, however sometimes the part gets worn so much that it has to be replaced. No big deal with small parts such as spring loaded plungers, firing pins, pawls or cylinder latches but the worst case scenario is when the frame get's worn beyond repair. This happens in revolvers where the window for the pawl or cylinder latch wear larger and affect timing. Internal corruption from burnt powder residue is more prominent in semi-autos because they are "blow back" operated so pressure forces residue in every nook and cranny inside a pistol. If the parts have a very light film of oil (dry to the touch), it provides good rust protection and it won't draw powder residue.

Sparsely oiled gun parts are mostly for rust or corrosion control. I've had a good number of guns come in my shop with internal rust that could have been easily prevented but the owners were to lazy or too mechanically challenged to field strip their guns. Oddly enough, I had more rust issues when living in Phoenix, AX than in damper climates. Some people use evaporative coolers instead of refrigerated air conditioners so the humidity in their house was very high. Rust can demo a gun pretty fast. Using lubrication products not made specifically for guns can also cause pitting and rust.

Because this thread was about greasing a slide on a pistol, I would be remiss if I didn't address this issue. Let's start with the "reason why" .... many people think a slide needs to be greased to reduce friction and prevent wear. If you examine any pistol, you will find the recoil spring moves in the same exact directions as the slide ..... very minimal friction and not a load bearing surface. If the recoil spring was at a right angle to slide movement, it would indeed increase friction and require lubrication, but the fact is, there is virtually no load bearing friction between a slide and frame rails. To test this concept, assemble your pistol without the recoil spring and see how easily the slide moves. Unless the rails are corrupted with grease or dried oil .... pointing the muzzle up then down should allow a slide with clean rails to move with just gravity. Try the same test with a freshly greased slide and see if it moves freely. Fact is, if the pistol is positioned where the slide is level, all it takes is an ounce or two of pressure on the muzzle to get an unlatched slide to move (no recoil spring) which is far from being a load bearing surface.Yes, cocking the hammer or striker impedes slide movement but don't confuse that with slide-to- frame friction. Even if the recoil spring did influence slide-to-frame friction, the tension of the spring would likely be under 20 lbs (16 lbs for a GI 1911) .... far from thousands of pounds of load bearing surfaces in cars, farm machinery, or large industrial machinery (which many people think are similar to guns, but they are not)!

Why do some people experience slide-to-frame wear? Because they over lubricate the rails, which get corrupted with powder residue and in time (round count) actually wear off some metal. As I noted in a previous post, I ran in excess of 50,000 rounds of 45 ACP GI hardball ammo through my Series 70 Colt and slide play is still less than .010" horizontally and less than .005" vertically. The Colt factory specs are double that .... .020" or less horizontal play and .010" or less vertical play. Point is, I have seen brand new 1911s fresh out of the factory with more slide play than my Series 70 with 50k rounds down the pipe. All I have ever done was to clean the gun after each shooting session and apply a tiny drop of oil to each slide rail, then spread that drop over the entire surface until it feels dry to the touch. None of my pistols have ever seen grease on the slide rails or any other part of the gun .... and never will!

As for polymer frames .... the concept for polymer is .... it is self lubricating, use no oil or grease at all.

Bottom line .... it's your gun, your money, possibly your life on the line .... so if you think a gun should be lubricated like an axle bearing in a tractor, go for it. BTW, "lubrication issues" kept my business profitable for 31 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Students of the guy, who wrote "grease" article(post #1), were shooting thousands of rounds a day and the guy was watching gun failures on regular basis. Greased guns were shooting longer w/o cleaning. Gunsmith Lowegan describes cases when people never took their guns apart, which is different from article cases.
 

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Beating grease for bearing, motor oil for motors, gun grease for guns.......simple enough for me. :cool:

ETA; I only use a dab of “gun grease” on my lugs.
My father teach me to shoot and clean the guns. Once I asked him, ...how much oil is enough?,... and he said.... one drop is to much.... Short story and has been 56 years since that day, and I still use oil for my guns.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Attention, motor oil people!!! Conventional oil attracts moisture! (it is not a problem for engines, because moisture disappears after engine warms up).Use only synthetic!
 

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Before you guys wax eloquent or derogatory on CLP, you ought to take a look at MIL-PRF-63460, which is not restricted and available to anyone. The PRF prefix indicates the material procurement is based upon performance. That means not all formations are identical. There are some 19 pages of requirements. I worked for 31 years as an engineer in Army aviation and although I've been retired for 15 years I still remember the first time I encountered this stuff. I "borrowed" some from our armorers in the 80's and haven't looked back since. In fact the aviation command authorized it for specific lubrication points on helicopter hardware. Great stuff. Also Iowegan is 100% spot on about using grease on M1 rifles: the cam surfaces on the op rod, the contact areas of the op rod and barrel, and the area where the bolt contacts the underside of the heel of the receiver. Ditto on the M14/M1A. All of the 18 of the Garand based types I own are just used in matches or just for fun at the range. Now that I'm well over 70, I don't have to compete against you young guys. No more combat duties for these old veterans or for me so dust and rain are not an issue.

 

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Some years ago I bought my first polymer gun. A Ruger p97dc in 45 ACP. Looking through the book it came with the gun, and there was nothing about what type or where to lube it. So I called Ruger Tech, and was told that any good oil with Teflon in it would work best. I have been using Rem Oil at that time and had very good luck with it. Yes it does go away quickly but it does leave Teflon on the surfaces where applied. I have been using REM Oil on most everything because it does leave things lubricated even when it seems to evaporate. As has been said before a little goes a long way as far as lubrication. I have also used something called milltek and it evaporates after time it also leaves the surface is very slick coating after two or three applications. The Mil-Tech people say that if you want to speed up the staying power of it you can apply it and blow it down with a heat gun or hair dryer. When I started using oil I was under the impression that more is better. I've since learned that lubrication in a firearm just attracts dirt, powder residue and such as people have stated before. I've tried some fancy stuff like toad grease, ( I applied a small amount of this to my kinda loose RA 1911 rails, took it out of the safe 6 weeks later and had to put it in the sun for an hour to get the slide to move).I do not shoot a tremendous amount but when I do I just make sure everything is lubricated in the right places with a good quality oil. Barbasol, Mil-Tec, REM Oil, Etc, Ect.
Use whatever you like, just remember a little goes a long way.
 

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load bearing surfaces in cars, farm machinery, or large industrial machinery (which many people think are similar to guns, but they are not)!.
One similar case does exist in vehicles: steel sleeves in polymer bushings. The bushings flex And the sleeve keeps them aligned, while protecting the bolt inside. Dust gets in over time.

I noted that use-case earlier because the recommended grease is far lighter than wheel-bearing grease that the OP‘s instructor friend advocates. Maybe his students did fine, but no way that is going on my semi’s rails. After 19 years and 5k rounds, it has only lost a bit of Parkerized finish there.
 

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Can we all agree that grease is OK to use in Florida, and not good for Alaska? :)
This is like those threads about bears. And remember there are bears in Alaska. Maybe in Alaska you have to use bear grease.

If you decide to use grease, of any sort, keep us informed about how it works after you have used the gun for a bit.
 

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I think this thread has about run its course .... at least 'till the next time it comes up .... which it always does.
 

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I think this thread has about run its course .... at least 'till the next time it comes up .... which it always does.
We need to start a new thread the first of each month to discuss the best cleaner, lube, grease, synthetic vs regular lubes and the best grease to use and where to use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
It reminds me discussion on every car forum which motor oil is better. Everybody says: I use .... oil for ... years and my car runs fine. It doesn't really matter which motor oil you use for your car or which lube for your gun, they all work fine.
 

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We need to start a new thread the first of each month to discuss the best cleaner, lube, grease, synthetic vs regular lubes and the best grease to use and where to use it.
Don't forget which caliber is better and whether we should use handloads for self defense.
 

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We might as well get it all out in the open .... is it a 45 Long Colt or a 45 Colt? A clip or a magazine? An old model Vaquero or just Vaquero? A Blackhawk or a flattop Blackhawk? Ruger only loads or not? And of course the most popular .... gun oil or engine oil?

Stay tuned because someone is bound to start another troll thread and suck us in.
 

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We might as well get it all out in the open .... is it a 45 Long Colt or a 45 Colt? A clip or a magazine? An old model Vaquero or just Vaquero? A Blackhawk or a flattop Blackhawk? Ruger only loads or not? And of course the most popular .... gun oil or engine oil?

Stay tuned because someone is bound to start another troll thread and suck us in.
Good ones!

144487
 

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I recently found an old bottle, the bottle was black, it had some labeling on it, it was white & gold lettering. It was in a bag from not just yesteryear, but from yester-century. This bag also contained some other things, long and forgotten about...
I shook the bottle real good, open it up and Bam, reminded me of those events that only a few here can relate to. This bottle does not have a name brand on it, but its as good as pure gold!
These folks claim they make it now, and it's available to everyone...but, I suspect it's missing something...


I used this for 30+ years on M1911, M9, M16, M4, M240, M2, and M256.
Strangely, I use solvent, cleaner & degreaser, oil and protectant, all from individualized and separate containers on my personal weapons...

A little puddle left in the gas piston cup on an M240 makes for a real easy after firing clean-up...
 
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