Ruger Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These videos are a bit clunky as they don’t have the high level of refinement and editing that many you tubers have these days, but I think the message is worth sharing, especially for the members who participate in a “lot” of private face to face firearms sales.
Long story short, it appears that a firearm this gentleman sold ended up in the hands of a felon and as this YouTuber was the last person on record as purchasing that firearm through an FFL, he got the ATF knocking on his door. Taking him at his word, it sounds like the person he legally sold the firearm to was not the felon, but he was the one who ended up on the ATF radar.
Regardless of the circumstances and what info on the buyer you have or don’t have, I wouldn’t talk to the ATF without a lawyer present. Take a look at what the ATF did to this guy with no trial, no conviction, or even any proof he did a single thing wrong. Sure, he still has a clean record, but he has lost rights, and what are the chances he runs into issues the next time he goes in for a NICS check or CPL renewal? Protect yourself, because even if you do nothing wrong, you still don’t have the paper against the ATF.

Part 1 sets the stage and Part 2 is about the actual meeting. Take note of the information they had.


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,544 Posts
I think you guys are missing the point. The F to F transfer wasn't the problem. That was legal. They thought he was buying cheap pistols and flipping them. That's why they were playing 20 questions. When he produced a couple of boxes of Jennings and Rohm paperweights it took all the wind out of their sails. He isn't a gun dealer and they know it but for some reason they felt the need to warn him anyway. They can't prevent him from engaging in lawful activity. They may not like it but absent malicious prosecution they can't stop a legit collector from buying/selling/trading as long as it's done by the book.

Interesting video but it won't change my behavior. Like him, I've never acquired a firearm with the intent to sell it. Never. Every gun I've ever bought or traded for is because it interests me in some way. Caliber, make, model, configuration, whatever. My intention is to keep them. However, safe space and resources are limited and my interest in stuff wanes. Therefore, I do occasionally sell/trade guns to fund other guns, clear out space or simply because I've lost interest in a particular firearm. Truthfully, now that I'm more focused about my firearms interests I don't buy as many. I also don't sell/trade as many because I'm more apt to remain interested in the guns I do acquire. I also NEVER transfer a gun to someone unless I believe they're legit. I don't want to break the law and I don't want some miscreant getting ahold of gun.

The moral of the story is twofold. First, make sure you're legal. Always. Play by the rules and you'll never have a problem. Second, don't let authorities bully you. Be polite, respectful and courteous but never kowtow to over reaching government thugs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
I makes me sad to see so many people scared into doing what the left wants.
If paperwork is not required, you requiring it is making Chuck and Nancy very happy.

Just be sure to inform the buyer ahead of time of ALL unnecessary requirements. If I find out in the parking lot after wasting gas and time, I'm going to be less pleasant.

I guarantee I'm not giving anymore than required by law info to a stranger in a parking lot so they can either lose it causing identity theft, or sell it causing identity theft and theft from your house, not worth the risk.

As a CDL holder, my SS number has been tied to my drivers license for a decade. Now that they are requiring more people to do this (Real ID is what my state calls it) maybe people will take the risk more seriously.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
I kind of been following this story, and it seems like it can happen very easily. Sell it to a friend or someone you know at let's say a friend from the American legion. You know this guy served his country upstanding citizen, but his nephew isn't who is a felon came over to his house to pick up some stuff for his mom started to rifle through his stuff while his uncle is getting some stuff from the garage. Swipes the pistol because it was only under a couple items in a drawer. Your friend doesn't notice it since its only been a couple of days. Guy gets picked up because he was beating his old lady. Police find the pistol. Question the guy. Guy tells him he didn't steal it he got it from his uncle, atf investigates the uncle asks him where he got the gun guy tells him you sold it to him....boom now your caught in the loop.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,544 Posts
I kind of been following this story, and it seems like it can happen very easily. Sell it to a friend or someone you know at let's say a friend from the American legion. You know this guy served his country upstanding citizen, but his nephew isn't who is a felon came over to his house to pick up some stuff for his mom started to rifle through his stuff while his uncle is getting some stuff from the garage. Swipes the pistol because it was only under a couple items in a drawer. Your friend doesn't notice it since its only been a couple of days. Guy gets picked up because he was beating his old lady. Police find the pistol. Question the guy. Guy tells him he didn't steal it he got it from his uncle, atf investigates the uncle asks him where he got the gun guy tells him you sold it to him....boom now your caught in the loop.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
It's up to the uncle to explain how a convicted felon got the gun, not you. If the uncle is a convicted felon you have a problem otherwise you've done nothing wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Corndog

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
It's up to the uncle to explain how a convicted felon got the gun, not you. If the uncle is a convicted felon you have a problem otherwise you've done nothing wrong.
It still gets you involved and opens the door for the ATF to look into your actions. I just could see how it could happen. I wouldn't say you would be in the wrong.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
How did ATF get a list of his purchases?

If they took the gun from felon and ran the number they could trace it back to original purchaser, but how’d they get the list, Florida have handgun registration?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
How did ATF get a list of his purchases?

If they took the gun from felon and ran the number they could trace it back to original purchaser, but how’d they get the list, Florida have handgun registration?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They track it from the original purchase. When you fill out the initial background check the serial # is recorded on there. The ATF will search for the initial sale if he was the original buyer they have a quick question and answer if it goes through multiple people it takes longer.

Those records have to be kept by the FFL for at least 20years. If the FFL goes out of business that FFL has to transfer those files to the ATF.

Really no need for registration the ATF can track the original purchases. Especially now with the digital system and application is a more simple search. I dont think they even have to go to the original FFL.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
Yeah but unless they have the gun to get serial # off of they can’t just search his name.

Unless guy did all his business with one FFL and the feds looked through the 4473 pile how would they know what he owned? That’s the only way I can see it happening without registration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
Yeah but unless they have the gun to get serial # off of they can’t just search his name.

Unless guy did all his business with one FFL and the feds looked through the 4473 pile how would they know what he owned? That’s the only way I can see it happening without registration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He could've been the original purchaser. The feds took the gun off the felon so they probably just did a search on the serial# and his name came up. If it was f to f transfer they probably went knocking until they found one of the guys who was last known to sell it. I dont think he said he did indeed sold it to to the felon he was probably just part of the interview and they looked into him more when he was asked about other firearm sales.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
2 weeks ago I had the local city police come to the house asking about a Springfield Armory 40cal pistol. It had been found in the middle of the road in the next county. I told the officer I had sold the gun several months earlier so they wanted to know who I sold it too. I sold it through a gun store on consignment I call the gun store who called the county sheriff and gave them the information on the guy that bought the gun. the guy that bought it laid it on the tool box of his truck while loading it forgot about it and drove off leaving the gun in the road. the state had not updated the transaction.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top