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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I own or have owned and sold 14 firearms, bought new, mostly pistols. 5 of these were inoperable or unsafe out of the box. 2 had to be serviced before they really should need servicing. Do I have a black cloud or does the gun industry suffer poor manufacturing practices? I assume I have just had bad luck. Below I describe my experiences with each gun. I am interested In feedback from people with experience with a lot of firearms in the last decade. What is your percentage?

kahr 380...slide jammed out of box...bad machining discovered. Fixed, but poor slide lock behavior remained
sig sauer p250, no issues
s&w 66 combat magnum revolve, no issues
ruger sr22, needed service by 2500 rounds
Ruger Mark IV target 22, no issues
s&w shield, no issues
sig sauer p365, no issues
Ruger lcpII, broken out of box, broken mim part on testing, and mag retention issues, fixed
Sig Sauer M11A1, no issues, serviced at 4K rounds for feeding issues, fixed
Ruger 10-22 performance center rifle, broken out of box, barrel too tight for 22lr, mag release lever problems, quickly fixed by Ruger
Stoeger shotgun, broken out of box, barrel obstructed! torn choke skirt, threads badly machined, replacement on order, no idea when it will show up due to Covid closure in brazil
CZ shotgun, no issues
S&W 43c 22lr revolver, broken out of box, light strikes and misfires with Federal Champ, cylinder seizing with CCI standard velocity, sent back to factory
Ruger LCR 38sp 3in, no issue

edit note: forgot one
 

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Hmmm...better check for a black cloud! :unsure: I've bought several hundred guns over the years, both new and used. I can say that there are manufacturers that don't keep close enough eye on quality control and certainly some manufacturing 'shortcuts' that result in higher profit margins and occasional quality issues. Customer service is king; if there's slow/no response to an issue, then I have a tendency to 'fire' that manufacturer and not purchase their products. Judging from the percentage of issues you've described compared to my own experiences, I'd guess that your expectations might be higher than my own....I have a tendency to think my expectations are reasonable and in line with the price I pay for any product. In my experience, guns are pretty darn good for the complexity of the product and (almost anything) in the computer industry is overpriced crap! Your experience may differ! Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I thought it might also be industry, because my bad experiences were 2 semi auto pistols, 1 revolver, 1 rifle, 1 shotgun, and 4 companies. Here’s to the weather clearing up...cheers.
 

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I can't say I have purchased what I consider alot of firearms, my wife disagrees though.

I've bought two guns that didn't function correctly, a new Taurus revolver and a used Browning BAR. Neither needed to go back to the manufacturer. Percentage wise that's under 5%.
 

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I think the revolver world, in my experience, has completely crapped the bed. Semi autos, in my experience, not so much.

For quite a while now, I assume any firearm I purchase is going to have to go back to the mfg for something....my personal experience. I factor that into my go/no go purchase decision. More no go for me 'cause I'm tired of having to mess with it.

Just bought a 1994 Colt King Cobra. Machining around the cone area is butter smooth. Compare that to my newer GP100....chatter marks all over the place. Looks like crap and is a complete PITA to clean. GP went back to Ruger twice for mechanical. One of these days I'll clean up the chatter marks....but I shouldn't have to.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, I did not do any math in my post, so let me add that. 5/14*100=35.7%. If that were anywhere close to the truth, it would be surprising. Would you accept 1 in 3 TVs being bad? Automobiles? 737s? No one would. That said I have no real world data upon which to base any conclusions other than what I experienced.
 

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And that's the problem. Statistically your sample group is way too small to be relevant. I've bought and sold close to 200 guns over the last 15 years and only had to send one back to the manufacturer 3 times (2 Ruger revolvers, 1 Colt semi-auto). My experience would be 1.5% but still too small of a sample group to be statistically relevant. It's all anecdotal evidence. Only the manufacturers, who won't disclose their QC protocols or statistics, really know for sure what the trend is. Talk to an old gunsmith and you'll likely hear that lemons from all the big names have always made it into the supply stream but before the internet and gun forums you never heard much about them. We get new members here all the time that join up just so they can complain about their gun. Rarely do they join to post a gushing review about how good their new gun is because we expect a new gun to be good. The negative forum chatter skews the perception. Lemons exist, always have, always will as long as the market demands relatively inexpensive firearms like common Ruger, S&W, Colt, Sig, Kimber, etc. products.

Sounds like you've had some bad luck but I think that's all it is. Hopefully your luck will improve in the future.
 

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Of the dozens of new and used guns I've bought and sold over the years only three come to mind.

-S&W629. One of the very first stainless 44magnum back in the day. It had gone to S&W twice while I was paying for in on layway back 1982. First year of production. So they were checking it for soft steel. They missed it and after 400 rounds of 44 magum mixed with 44 special the topstrap started to flamecut. S&W fixed it but I never trusted it after that. Damned shame too because it would pop soda cans and 100 yards with iron sights when I did my part.

-1916 Spanish Mauser 308Win. Broken Extractor. Fixed in five minutes.

-Taurus Pt-709. I will never buy another Taurus. PT-709 is a very slim single stack 9mm. I don't miss worrying about getting off a second shot as after 400 rounds or so, it would not chamber a second round from three factory mags with hardball. And it would randomly jam throughout. At first I thought it was my grip. Doubtful. I have no problems with other small pistols. Too bad as it was a decently sized gun that disappeared on my hip.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I tried some stats calculators. One to compare proportions between us required at least 10 failures and successes in each sample. So that won’t work. Then I simulated sampling 14 guns from a population with a crappy gun proportion of .357. Out of 5000 draws of 14 guns, only 12 of the samples had a proportion of less than .015. 12/5000 = .002. I appreciate your sharing. Almost all of the guns I listed I liked. I kept the p365 and m11a1 9mm for carry. The 10/22 and Mark iv for sport. The cz shotgun and Ruger LCR for fun and protection at home.
<Sample Proportion Simulation (PSIMUL) - eMathInstruction>
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I can't say I have purchased what I consider alot of firearms, my wife disagrees though.

I've bought two guns that didn't function correctly, a new Taurus revolver and a used Browning BAR. Neither needed to go back to the manufacturer. Percentage wise that's under 5%.
So less than 5%. Just collating responses.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
For quite a while now, I assume any firearm I purchase is going to have to go back to the mfg for something....my personal experience. I factor that into my go/no go purchase decision. More no go for me 'cause I'm tired of having to mess with it.
Sounds like your percentage is higher? Care to ballpark an estimate?
 

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Wow.........sounds like a black cloud to me. Had a Mossy MVP which gave me nothing but problems and a Ruger LC9 which had its issues in the last few years out of 4 dozen or so firearms but nothing like the list described.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Wow.........sounds like a black cloud to me. Had a Mossy MVP which gave me nothing but problems and a Ruger LC9 which had its issues in the last few years out of 4 dozen or so firearms but nothing like the list described.
So you’ve seen less than 5%. Good to know.
 

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I vote Black cloud. Maybe you should have your wife pick the next gun. She may have better luck.
I have had 2 guns sent back because of manufacturing problems. 1st was a Ruger SR1911. 2nd mas a Marlin lever action in 357 mag. I won't post the number of guns I have but the 2 sent back is a small percentage of my collection.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I vote Black cloud. Maybe you should have your wife pick the next gun. She may have better luck.
I have had 2 guns sent back because of manufacturing problems. 1st was a Ruger SR1911. 2nd mas a Marlin lever action in 357 mag. I won't post the number of guns I have but the 2 sent back is a small percentage of my collection.
Thanks. Excellent advice. I am sensitive to personal disclosure. I appreciate the response.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I own or have owned and sold 14 firearms, bought new, mostly pistols. 5 of these were inoperable or unsafe out of the box. 2 had to be serviced before they really should need servicing. Do I have a black cloud or does the gun industry suffer poor manufacturing practices? I assume I have just had bad luck. Below I describe my experiences with each gun. I am interested In feedback from people with experience with a lot of firearms in the last decade. What is your percentage?
Please let me be clear about personal disclosure. Although I disclosed my purchased firearms, I don’t expect nor am asking anyone to do the same. I did to show the evidence of my experience and to promote discussion. Any follow on inquiries I have made were only about percentages, which hide the denominator (total). My apologies if I led anyone to perceive otherwise.
 

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I wouldn't sweat it. It's not like you are here screaming "TELL ME WHAT YOU OWN". Lol. If someone didn't want to tell you they don;t have to and just give a percentage. I only did as it a range of used, new and from known manufacturers.

Oh I will add the Ruger P90 that I had briefly. I would sometimes not go completely into battery and stop about 1/8 inch out. A simple tap would fix it, but it was fairly new so could have just been break in time. I would say it's far less that 5% total
Plus I know and have been around guns in civilian and military life. You are due for better luck. Maybe take a friend along for an extra set of objective eyes.
 
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