[15AcreWoods]

I was wondering what to use to get a lot of smoke from a 38 Spec. / 357. I would prefer not using black powder cus of the mess. I want to see the expression on my sons face when he pops a cap down range. They are coming to visit Sept 1st. The first thing he does after the van is unloaded is head for the range.

I had a .44 1858 Remington years ago when all I could get was FFG blackpowder. Don't know anything about the initation blackpowders.

 

[gunman42782]

Well, loading black powder loads in cartridges is a science all to itself. There are more precautions that must be taken than regular reloading. I have never done it myself, but have read about it in the gun mags. I would say if you want some smoke but do not want to use real black powder then your best bet would be to use Unique or some other pretty smoky smokeless powder. (Pretty smoky smokeless powder, not that is a paradox!) I don't think using Pyrodex or 777 would be your answer, because Pyrodex is just as nasty as black powder, IMHO, and 777 does not smoke near as much.

 

[DONALD W. WARREN]

Also use some greasy lubed lead bullets. I caan always tell when I am shooting lead.

 

[deputy125]

Wipe your bore with kroil oil [)] and use some bullseye powder--it will smoke for a while!

You can give Hodgden a call and see if they have any data for pyrodex and the 38. From what i have read, the most important thing is to fill the case and not compress the load. Dispite the advertising hype, pyrodex will still make a bit of a mess and is somewhat corrosive. unless otherwise specified, use volume measure for pyrodex.

I'm sure you may be able to go to a cas site for some insights on pyrodex/bp and the 38spl. Here is a site that has some info and a little bit of data on page 22 using bp and various cartridges including the 38 spl.:
http://www.jspublications.net/tips/BPLoading.pdf

I am always suspect of other folks data on the net so use caution.

other than that, i would see it as a good excuse to get a ruger old army---wish i still had mine . This would be my preference and a good excuse for another gun!!!

 

[45 Colt]

I've used American Pioneer Powder for most,if not all 45-70 loads.
Used 2F APP with the 45 Colt.It does leave a gray powder residue.
And 2F/3F BP.Both powders needs a drop tube.100% density,with no air space, and some compression.
The old 40gr of 3F,is hard to compress.The bullet is deformed when seating the bullet.
Backed off to 35gr,and the bullet did not deform,yet adds compression to the powder.
With either powder,use a BP lube on especially the base pin.Otherwise after a few rounds,
the cylinder will be hard to turn.
Heard some using Windex.

 

[Bullet94]

You can get loading data for 38’s using Triple Seven FFG here –

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/muzzleloading/granular/t7cartridge.php

I loaded some of these lately. Just remember that you don’t weigh powder charges. You measure them by volume. These loads made enough smoke that I had to wait for the smoke to clear to see the target again. A lot of fun. Cleaned up with water, I couldn’t believe how easy clean up was. If you have any questions call Hodgdon.

 

[jimbo1096]

quote:Originally posted by Bullet94

You can get loading data for 38’s using Triple Seven FFG here –

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/muzzleloading/granular/t7cartridge.php

I loaded some of these lately. Just remember that you don’t weigh powder charges. You measure them by volume. These loads made enough smoke that I had to wait for the smoke to clear to see the target again. A lot of fun. Cleaned up with water, I couldn’t believe how easy clean up was. If you have any questions call Hodgdon.

Bullet94- you say to load by volume not by weight--
So they list a weight charge for reference or do you actually use that weight to load with?

 

[Bullet94]

The charges they list are for black powder measures that measure by volume.

quote:From Hodgdon -

All pistol loads shown were developed by filling the case to a point which allowed the powder to be compressed 1/16" to 1/8" when the bullet was seated. All rifle loads used a card wad of approximately .030" between the base of the bullet and the powder. The powder charges listed in the data are by volume, not weight. Use an adjustable powder measure designed for blackpowder to measure the proper charge.

The above was copied from here –

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/cowboy/prdxt7warn.php


I bought a Revolver Powder Measure from Cabelas that measures from 5 to 50grs by volume. Here’s a link -

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&parentType=index&indexId=cat20819&hasJS=true

One thing I found when shooting Triple Seven FFG loads from my Stainless Ruger Bisley Vaquero was that after around 15 to 20 rounds the cylinder face would get dirty enough to start to make the cylinder hard to turn. I would recommend that if you load Triple Seven FFG you bring along a container of water to clean the cylinder with (it comes clean easy with just water and a paper towel) and you can also drop your spent cases in the water too. You might want to bring a bore brush and some patches too. Wipe the cylinder face off and use a couple of wet patches in the chambers and bore then a couple dry patches and your good to go again. While Triple Seven FFG is dirty (Hey these are Cowboy loads) it comes off very easy with just water.

I just read this on the net - Black powder is measured in grains of water – volume. So when Hodgdon says 15grains, this means the volume of 15grains of water. Not sure if this is right but I think so.

 

[cyrille]

Loading by volume is the correct way to measure BP I have both weighed and measured by volume and find that the weighted grs. of BP are pretty close to the volume mesurement. However I have never used a weighted charge to fire a bullet just the volume measured charge.

 

[twobiscuit]

Try Blackhorn 209. After reading about it in the latest issue of Handloader Magazie, I picked up a can and I was extremely impressed with this powder. Lots of smoke like black but very low standard deviation. Check their website. Lots of load data too.

Blackhorn 209 :: Take charge of your acuracy.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I'm going to pump more life into this old thread. I used way too much Lee Liquid Alox on my very first cast bullets. They didn't come out like black powder loads but they were pretty smokey with the Bullseye pushing them out. Made me turn a shade of red at my first attempt on cast bullets and hand loading together... Oopsie...

 

[cyrille]

I appreciate the various suggestions made here on "making smoke" without using BP or a BP substitute. However I do not believe that is the purpose of this forum. I think it was started so that BP aficionados (Those who enjoy shooting the "Holy Black" and the attendent duties that go along with the disapline) could discuss the various aspects of BP shooting, diffrent loadings used bullet(ball) weights how tos, tricks of the trade so to speak. Just my .02 cents worth

 

[cyrille]

Bullet94- you say to load by volume not by weight--
So they list a weight charge for reference or do you actually use that weight to load with?

If have or get a BP powder measure get one with numbers etched onto the side of the brass tube that will give you the volume of BP to use in various loadings and if you are new to this disapline get an up-to-date BP manual Lyman has their newest out.

 

[Cariboo Country]

BP in .357

I agree with Cyrille- if you don't like the work and mess associated with shooting BP, shoot smokeless.
All of the cartridges we shoot in CAS were either historic BP rds or modern equivalents.
One thing you can do for ease of loading in .44s and .45s is use 30 gr Pyrodex pellets. Just drop them in the cases and seat/crimp a bullet. Same clean up required as per BP.
I had a pal who shot 21 grs/158 SWC in his Marlin Micro-Groove barrel, a newspaper wad under the bullet so he could compress; smokeless lube. Very labour intensive. He shot thru' entire matches withut cleraning just fine.

I've loaded up the same for my Uberti RB .357 rifle with 174 gr SWCs and SPG; and it loves it. Gets pretty cruddy tho. Needs a bore cleaning after about 20 rds.
I just loaded up some 44-40s (see the reloading column) with BP for my Taylor's Remington conversion. Lyman 215 gr RNFPs/SPG lube. No wad.
Can't wait for the gun to arrive.

 

[220combat]

If you wanted to avoid BP and subs all together, try Trailboss. It has some smoke, not like BP, but it keep it nostalgic.

 

[Cariboo Country]

Bullet mould recommendation for .357 BP

I've had a box of Lyman .357 gas checks forever. Used 'em in an attempt for a .357 birdshot load. Stupid idea ....
Recently I ran across a new RCBS GC bullet mould in a shop and I bought it, thinking I would eventually use the gas checks - RCBS 38-158-SWC.
My Bullets drop out of the mould at 162 grs with the alloy I'm using. I run them thru' my sizer/lubricator with SPG and I've loaded several for my Uberti .357 RB rifle with BP. Great accuracy!

What's great about the idea is that you get a 2nd ring of lube where the gas check would be, eliminating the need of a grease cookie. The design already has a wide flat bottomed grease groove and crimping groove.
If using them in really warm weather, it would be a good idea for a couple of paper or a card wad to separate the powder from the lube.

 

[MakeMineMoxie]

Thank you for all the information, gentlemen! I have also contemplated loading BP .357 loads, if only for the heck of it, and I value the info.

 

[FirstTenor]

I just want to know two things... did you succeed in making a smoky load and what did your son's face look like when he squeezed the trigger?

 

[J Miller]

I was wondering what to use to get a lot of smoke from a 38 Spec. / 357. I would prefer not using black powder cus of the mess. I want to see the expression on my sons face when he pops a cap down range. They are coming to visit Sept 1st. The first thing he does after the van is unloaded is head for the range.

I had a .44 1858 Remington years ago when all I could get was FFG blackpowder. Don't know anything about the initation blackpowders.

Caution: Don't use Pyrodex cos that crap is more corrosive than real black powder. I have a OM BH with a pitted bore and cylinder due to that stuff. And yes I scrubbed the thing well with hot soap and water and lubed it too.

OK, that said here is something to try. RCBS "RIFLE" lube with Unique. Years ago I used to shoot a lot of 38 specials and I'd load the Keith 358429 over 5.0grs Unique. The bullet was pan lubed with the RCBS rifle lube. That combination made for a filthy, smoky, greasy, mess.

Certain bullet lubes smoke more than others. A little experimentation might find the right combo to get the smoke you want.

Joe

 

[4fingers]

When I load a batch of .357 for CAS I use American Pioneer Powder 3f. I use one of the Lee Plastic dippers of 1.6cc and a 158grain round nose flat point bullet. I do not use a lube if I cast my own but if I buy cast bullets then I leave the lube on. APP does not require a lube. It cleans up with hot water or Windex. I use the clear windex with vinegar. The blue windex has amonia in it and will ruin the blueing.
The important thing to remember is to fill the case (BP or most BP subs) to a point that the bullet, when seated, gives at least some compression. You do not want air space between the powder and the bullet. If you want to lighten the load, some folks use wads or filler to take up space.
After I shot about five matches (150 rounds per pistol or so) and got all the smokless powder residue completly cleaned out, I can give the pistol a couple squirts of windex. Then run two or three patches through the cylinder and bore. A couple q-tips to get to the tight spots and it is clean as new. A very light coat of Ballistol and you are ready for the next match.