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Code Slinger
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I started this post as a reply to another topic and realized I was hijacking the thread, so I started a new thread...

I was talking to one of my friends who is an Atlanta Police officer about cocked and locked carry and the safetyless Glock, and he made the comment "I am a Firearms Instructor, and I am intimate with the internals, and realize its safe", he was referring to the Glock 27 IWB backup he was carrying.
I have grown up around firearms, and received my first .22 rifle before I turned 10. By 16, I had a 12ga pump shotgun, and several .22 rifles and pistols. Since then, I have had literally hundreds of firearms come in and out of my possession, and some of these guns would malfunction. I had a Stevens .12ga side-by-side shotgun that would fire both chambers upon closing the breach.
I began to think that to carry cocked and locked one has to be a little naive to the fact guns (and people) do malfunction! Some examples are posted here at rugerforum.net where we had a Full-Auto Glock to magazines that drop on firing. If guns always worked PERFECT and have NEVER had a malfunction, then I would see carrying cocked and locked safe.

The only exception where I carry Cocked & Locked is on a duty belt, where the firearm is held slightly away from the body and would reduce the chance of injury on accidental misfire.

What's your thoughts on cocked & locked?
 

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Always carried the Colt 1991 cocked and locked, and never though twice about it. The holster has a hold down strap that goes between the hammer and frame. With this snapped in place, it absolutely cannot discharge. However once the strap is released and you are drawing the firearm, a finger on the trigger is a bad thing. I practiced that a lot. Now that I don't carry this piece very often, I would be very careful when withdrawing it from the holster. I know there are probably a dozen built in safeties, but it still makes me nervous when it's out of the holster and the hammer reared back.
I will say that I once had a friend who was on a SoCAL police dept, was in a grocery store and carrying his 1911 in a middle of the back position when he thought he felt it slip. He reached back (can you see what's coming?) to reposition the gun and as he pulled it back up he somehow also pulled on the trigger, discharging one round through his left butt cheek and making a nice hole in the floor. I would expect this holster was one of those slip in sleeve type with no saftey strap or trigger cover. That was just asking for an accident to happen.
 

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Code Slinger
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Discussion Starter #4
I feel you should not carry Cocked & Locked unless its in a duty belt. It only takes one AD to hurt or kill someone, and to me its not worth it for the extra second it takes to cock the hammer.
 

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I have carried cocked and locked several times over the years. I currently do not even own a 1911 (gasp!) but I have no qualms about carrying one once more in that manner. I feel it is perfectly safe to do so, for a person with a modicum of common sense.
 

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i view the 1911 as a weapon of war not peace time. Might be why the military usually carry it in condition 3.
Condition 1 carry is fine for those dedicated to mastering it and with a proper holster.
As with any weapon, going into it with a half-way attitude on manual of arms and gear will get you into trouble.
 

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All modern handguns have redundant safeties, passive or active. Single action pistols are as safe or safer as any single action rifle/shotgun out there. I've always found it strange that some consider cocked and locked pistols unsafe while having no fear of carrying a long gun in the same condition. Do your part and any properly manufactured and maintained weapon will perform as intended. There's no such thing as an accidental discharge. Negligent is the proper word.
 

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I carried my Combat Commander cocked and locked for years in a Safariland open top holster no safety strap, in an upright spring-type shoulder holster, and in an IWB on the belly-the thumb safety and grip safety were all I needed...I carried a Browning Hi-Power hammer down on a live round or half-cock stuffed in my belt...safety off because I'm lefty-glad they're ambi now... I've known officers who shot their own chubs because they drew with their finger on the trigger or slammed an unsafetied gun into a holster-careless and stupid have nothing to do with the design...the Colt-type design is as safe as it gets...if dropped, who knows? The Glock, however, regularly goes off when dropped-I know the grandpa of a 3-year-old girl who'll never be four because her Dad's Glock hit the floor...I'd not take a Glock as a gift...the Springfield,XD, on the other hand, has a grip safety and trigger safety-inertia of landing on the butt won't release the grip safety even if it does pull the trigger safety....My opinions...worth about what it cost me to post them...to those who don't trust either Colt or Glock and elect to go empty chamber, I encourage you to keep the safety off (On the Colt or other safetied model)...that way you can chamber a round one-handed by dragging the sights down your pantsleg with finger off the trigger should your right hand be tied up...quite a common scenario...don't count on two hands being free...know your weapon intimately and practice handling it safely...and check on yourself often...you should finish life AD-free!!!
 

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Seems that once upon a time i read somewhere that in Isreal, they like to carry condition 3 so when they rack a round it has the same psycological (no spell check)affect as racking a pump shotgun. Don't know if there is any truth to it.
 

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quote:Originally posted by deputy125

Seems that once upon a time i read somewhere that in Isreal, they like to carry condition 3 so when they rack a round it has the same psycological (no spell check)affect as racking a pump shotgun. Don't know if there is any truth to it.
I have heard something to that affect too. My problem with that is what if you have one arm disabeled, as in they came in shooting and got you in your arm. Gonna be kinda hard to rack the slide with an arm or hand shot. It is a whole lot easier to take that safety off and shoot back! But, that is why I carry a P89DC or P90DC and don't have to worry about any safety other than the one between my ears.
 

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Tim, try with an empty weapon and an old pair of jeans till you can rack it one-handed...in case of a FTF or dud...it's surprisingly easy...I carry the decock guns or DAO now, too-but long for another Combat Commander-sized .45...I don't remember the condition #s, but the military has 'em carry hammer down on an empty barrel to stave off idiot ADs...even the officers had to carry that way...silly but I understand...someone who carries daily should know his weapon better...
 

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jlweems
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I don't carry my 1911 as a protection weapon as I don't trust it as well my other pistols. If I were carrying a 1911 or a CZ75 or other similar pistol, I would carry cocked and locked. I carry a Glock a CCW all the time, and doesn't have a positive safety on it. Neither do my revolvers or my PC95.
 

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No problem at all for me...used them in that manner on and off th' job for years. Still do from time to time, tho' you'll most likely find a .357 SIG in my duty belt these days...
 

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First of all... Glocks do NOT go off if they are dropped. And second of all, a cock and locked 1911 is actually safer than a Glock. There are 3 manual safties on a Colt 1911. The thumb, grip, and firing pin safties. You have to grip the gun, click off the thumb safety, and then pull the trigger. A Glock is just like any revolver, you just have to pull the trigger. And both have a firing pin safety. Glocks do not discharge from a drop. Someone pulled the trigger on it. And 1911's don't go off on you unless the safeties are disengaged. People want to make up all kind of excuses for why they shot themselves. I've carried cocked and locked Colts, and 9mm Glocks, and a .357 magnum revolver. And if they are in a proper holster that covers the trigger guard then none of them can go off accidentally. There is no excuse for shooting yourself. You are a dope plain and simple. And if you are gonna carry a gun, make sure its loaded. If you think you are gonna be able to rack the slide on a gun when you are scared for your life, your are sadly mistaken.
 

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I do not carry a handgun with an empty chamber. Being said, i do have access to an 870 with empty chamber and have no problems over the years racking and chambering a round there under stress. Same goes for the m-16 riding with an empty chamber.
While i will not carry a handgun with an empty chamber, i do see it as an option for one more layer of safety for those who want it (our own military). And i can see a psysological effect it could put on a perp. Properly executed it could have the same effect as racking an 870 and may stop a threat without having to fire a shot.

Improperly executed it could get you killed. Size counts and a handgun slide is small compared to an 870. While i will not carry a handgun in condition 3, it may be a viable option for someone else who practices and are confident in that mode of carry.

Sheepdog---I am sorry to here about the dropped glock resulting in an AD and a tragic death. But that is the 1st time that i have heard of a glock AD by being dropped. Wonder if something got into the trigger guard on impact? We also practiced the one hand drag/rack drill you mentioned as a "just in case" we loose our weak hand.
I also agree that anything made by man is not perfect. And i am a big believer in Murphy's Law.
 

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Legacy, the above-mentioned case was the only one where someone close has had an AD and I got all the details...I have been told by police officers and one gunsmith of officers' having dropped their guns and having an AD from inertial force pulling both triggers...you're right, that makes a weak case for "regularly"...poor word to use...those stories and the ADs caused by something (clothing, etc.) getting into the trigger guard have been enough for me to decide not to trust Glocks...I haven't had but one and didn't drop it on its' butt to see....so I'll stand corrected but firm in my opinion...and doing some research...
 

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I have over fourty years, in both, civilian and military usage and carrying of the 1911 series pistol. Carrying it cocked and locked is not a problem with me. I do it daily.;)
 

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I regularly carry a Kimber Custom Compact 1911 .45acp. The owner's manual said not to manually lower the hammer as it could damage the sear (I don't see how, but I didn't design it, so what do I know). That leaves only two carry options. Cocked and locked, or hammer down on an empty chamber. I refuse to carry what is essentially an unloaded weapon. I feel cocked and locked is pefectly safe. However, for some who chose not to practice or who feel leary of cocked and locked handguns, a double action revolver or dao pistol might be a better choice.
 
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