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They learn; our Snakebit dog also barked, backing up, while the biggest dog who has never been bitten got a little too close, though he has encountered several of them. I worry about the puppy, who is nearly adult but too curious, but these are 24/7/365 livestock dogs.

I found the snake that I shot last night. It crawled a few feet and died after being hit. Looks like it’s over 2 feet long so it’s not a juvenile. If it is not carried off tonight by a raccoon I will stretch it out with my snake grabber and check it tomorrow. Of course the young ones are more dangerous because they don’t control the venom they release.

Today I ordered a bond arms Derringer 357 from Buds. My wife is now convinced that she’s going to need to keep a weapon in the chicken coop or garden basket for a quick shot if I cannot arrive on time, before a Copperhead gets away. She shoots snubs and big bore guns, and she is not recoil shy. Still, a derringer is a diferent animal so we will also practice right here on our land. Learning to shoot on a snub with +p helps; she is a good shot under pressure. There is no felt recoil from the snake shot loads in a .357 snub.

For right now I brought the gun I called “old painless“ into the house: my original firearm, a Mossberg 600 New Haven with a shorter barrel and tac light View attachment 157299 installed for nighttime work.
You can get a .410 BBL for it and the 2 1/2" shot shells don't recoil much in the Bond and you put out a lot more shot than with a pistol cartridge. Mine actually patterns better with the 2 1/2" # 6 shot than it does with some 3" # 7 1/2's that I have. Surprised me as the #6's didn't have a hole in the pattern but the 7 1/2 did, go figure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
You can get a .410 BBL for it and the 2 1/2" shot shells don't recoil much in the Bond and you put out a lot more shot than with a pistol cartridge. Mine actually patterns better with the 2 1/2" # 6 shot than it does with some 3" # 7 1/2's that I have. Surprised me as the #6's didn't have a hole in the pattern but the 7 1/2 did, go figure.
What is nice about the Bond Arms guns is how the barrels interchange. I will try a .410 barrel if I like the gun, which I suspect I will.

I reload for .38 with #9 shot, and it patterns well at Copperhead range. I suspect that CCI shells pull out under recoil because they do not use brass cases. I find that I can crimp brass a bit around Speer’s shot capsules, and they do not creep out under recoil. I asked CCI about what I have observed and got this polite reply:

Inertia bullet pull is something that can be seen with this round as we are unable to crimp these greater than what they are as the capsule itself will break upon doing so. With that the best results have been seen with revolvers with longer barrels as the shot pattern is tighter and the inertia bullet pulls are eliminated. We appreciate you input and the support you have for our product.

Folks who poo-poo the derringer for self-defense forget no-leg aggressors. That is where such small, easily carried guns shine. One or two shots does the job on Nope Ropes.
 

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I reload for .38 with #9 shot, and it patterns well at Copperhead range. I suspect that CCI shells pull out under recoil because they do not use brass cases. I find that I can crimp brass a bit around Speer’s shot capsules, and they do not creep out under recoil. I asked CCI about what I have observed and got this polite reply:

Inertia bullet pull is something that can be seen with this round as we are unable to crimp these greater than what they are as the capsule itself will break upon doing so. With that the best results have been seen with revolvers with longer barrels as the shot pattern is tighter and the inertia bullet pulls are eliminated. We appreciate you input and the support you have for our product.
I have never had trouble with my CCI shot capsule loads, but I have never shot the store bought "snake ammo". I have found a crimp that secures the capsules, and yet doesn't break them. (Not yet, anyway!) Some guys use a "drap" of super glue to secure the capsules, which might solve the problem with factory ammo..

Old School Wheelgunner's post showing what #6(?) shot ahead of 3 gr. Bullseye can do at snake ranges was most impressive!
At present, I have Unique loaded behind Speer shot capsules with #s 8, 9, 10 (I think) and 12 shot ready to test. But, I will find some cheap shotshells with OSW's shot size, and salvage the shot to try. If it will do as good out of my 4" revolver, I have found "the" load! 😎
 

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My dog is a concern down at our camp; she is a 20lb terrier, and nosy as the devil. We have a spectacular rock that sticks out into the river, and it is a great place to sit.
But I keep the pup on her lead down there, to keep her from getting curious. She really is a sweet pooch, and I'd hate to lose her.
Still wish the gunmakers would find a way to eliminate the shot swirl in guns like the Governor; makes for a donut shaped pattern.
There's an old H&R under my bunk, whacked to 18". Really should use that for snake patrol, but the bike trail yuppies would be apoplectic. ;)
Moon
 

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What is nice about the Bond Arms guns is how the barrels interchange. I will try a .410 barrel if I like the gun, which I suspect I will.

I reload for .38 with #9 shot, and it patterns well at Copperhead range. I suspect that CCI shells pull out under recoil because they do not use brass cases. I find that I can crimp brass a bit around Speer’s shot capsules, and they do not creep out under recoil. I asked CCI about what I have observed and got this polite reply:

Inertia bullet pull is something that can be seen with this round as we are unable to crimp these greater than what they are as the capsule itself will break upon doing so. With that the best results have been seen with revolvers with longer barrels as the shot pattern is tighter and the inertia bullet pulls are eliminated. We appreciate you input and the support you have for our product.

Folks who poo-poo the derringer for self-defense forget no-leg aggressors. That is where such small, easily carried guns shine. One or two shots does the job on Nope Ropes.
If the capsules pull out a little under recoil with the bond who cared. I didn't have that problem with the ones I made for the SP as I put as much crimp on them that I dared to without breaking or deforming the capsule. I could go around the cylinder without issue. They don't have to be loaded hot just enough to penetrate an inch of snake.

As for self defense I have the 44 Spl BBL on mine right now (switch to 410 when we head south for the winter) and two 250 Gr cast bullets ahead of 7 1/2 gr of Unique might be a little discouraging to absorb. I don't usually carry it around town but have no qualms about doing so. Sure there are better options but out around the yard it's usually with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
If the capsules pull out a little under recoil with the bond who cared. I didn't have that problem with the ones I made for the SP as I put as much crimp on them that I dared to without breaking or deforming the capsule. I could go around the cylinder without issue. They don't have to be loaded hot just enough to penetrate an inch of snake.
I cleaned up the Bond but not shot it yet. In my Kimber K6S the other night, the capsules in my crimped reloads only pulled out a trifle, and the gun did not lock up after two shots into the Copperhead. That is enough to suit the wife, who may have to use the revolver herself at some point.

That said, I still plan to make up some “nail polish” rounds to try in our .38s. We will see what the derringer does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
And…number four of 2021. This is getting wearisome. Shot this one hiding under a plastic riser we use to put chicken feeders on. About 2’ from me, normally too close but the snake was alerted on my wife who discovered it. Walk-in-talkies are a must on the farm.

Again, my #9 shot reloads did not lock up the gun.

I cleaned the new Bond Arms Derringer but have only been dry firing it with snap caps. I fear a real test is on the way :(

We just cut grass, string trimmed, and removed brush. I blame our cicada hatch, since they are Copperhead-crack.
 

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What is nice about the Bond Arms guns is how the barrels interchange. I will try a .410 barrel if I like the gun, which I suspect I will.

I reload for .38 with #9 shot, and it patterns well at Copperhead range. I suspect that CCI shells pull out under recoil because they do not use brass cases. I find that I can crimp brass a bit around Speer’s shot capsules, and they do not creep out under recoil. I asked CCI about what I have observed and got this polite reply:

Inertia bullet pull is something that can be seen with this round as we are unable to crimp these greater than what they are as the capsule itself will break upon doing so. With that the best results have been seen with revolvers with longer barrels as the shot pattern is tighter and the inertia bullet pulls are eliminated. We appreciate you input and the support you have for our product.

Folks who poo-poo the derringer for self-defense forget no-leg aggressors. That is where such small, easily carried guns shine. One or two shots does the job on Nope Ropes.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a no-leg aggressor and a Nope Rope? I need a gun to carry while in the woods hiking. So your saying a derringer would be good for self defense and snakes? If so, that would be great. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a no-leg aggressor and a Nope Rope? I need a gun to carry while in the woods hiking. So your saying a derringer would be good for self defense and snakes? If so, that would be great. Thanks
We call venomous snakes “Johnny No-Legs,” “Nope Ropes,“ “Crawlies,” and more in Ol Virginny.

Not sure on the Bond Arms Derringer yet. I have cleaned it but not fired it. The Kimber K6S has taken all four Copperheads I have killed near our stock or livestock dogs this year.

More on the gun soon, as I may fire it at last this weekend.

For hiking, I carry a five-or-six shot snub with some rounds for humans or wild dogs (got attacked once. Never again).

I won’t shoot a snake in its house, only too near mine.
 

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We call venomous snakes “Johnny No-Legs,” “Nope Ropes,“ “Crawlies,” and more in Ol Virginny.

Not sure on the Bond Arms Derringer yet. I have cleaned it but not fired it. The Kimber K6S has taken all four Copperheads I have killed near our stock or livestock dogs this year.

More on the gun soon, as I may fire it at last this weekend.

For hiking, I carry a five-or-six shot snub with some rounds for humans or wild dogs (got attacked once. Never again).

I won’t shoot a snake in its house, only too near mine.
Thanks for educating me. As it has been said, you learn something new everyday.
 

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Excuse my ignorance, but what is a no-leg aggressor and a Nope Rope? I need a gun to carry while in the woods hiking. So your saying a derringer would be good for self defense and snakes? If so, that would be great. Thanks
When I hike in FL I carry the Bond Snake Slayer with #6 shot in one bbl and 000 Buck in the other. Figure it covers the bases for both reptiles and mammals. I set it up to fire the shot BBL first. Mine has a better pattern (less holes) with the 2 1/2" shot than the 3" so go figure.
 

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When I hike in FL I carry the Bond Snake Slayer with #6 shot in one bbl and 000 Buck in the other. Figure it covers the bases for both reptiles and mammals. I set it up to fire the shot BBL first. Mine has a better pattern (less holes) with the 2 1/2" shot than the 3" so go figure.
I guess it could be used as a deterrent to humans, too?
 

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There are snake schools for dogs here. Teach the dogs to leave them alone. When I was hiking in the desert I carried an SP101 357 snub with 2 rounds of CCI snake. Never had to use it. Saw rattlers but they were not a threat. Some people with cameras deserve to get bit. Amazing how stupid they get trying to get a picture. Leave them alone. We do have one called the Green Mojave that is aggressive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
There are snake schools for dogs here. Teach the dogs to leave them alone. When I was hiking in the desert I carried an SP101 357 snub with 2 rounds of CCI snake. Never had to use it. Saw rattlers but they were not a threat. Some people with cameras deserve to get bit. Amazing how stupid they get trying to get a picture. Leave them alone. We do have one called the Green Mojave that is aggressive.
Our two older Anatolians are really smart around snakes. in May 2022, the snake-aversion trainer will be back in the area to teach our new dog, not the same breed and not quite as smart :).

As they are 24/7 working dogs, it is worth the price to train the pup.

No rattlers here, yet, though they are moving east out of their normal range. Matter of time.
 

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My dog is a concern down at our camp; she is a 20lb terrier, and nosy as the devil. We have a spectacular rock that sticks out into the river, and it is a great place to sit.
But I keep the pup on her lead down there, to keep her from getting curious. She really is a sweet pooch, and I'd hate to lose her.
Still wish the gunmakers would find a way to eliminate the shot swirl in guns like the Governor; makes for a donut shaped pattern.
There's an old H&R under my bunk, whacked to 18". Really should use that for snake patrol, but the bike trail yuppies would be apoplectic. ;)
Moon

T/C does for the .45 Colt barrels which can fire .410 shotshells. It is an extension with straight grooves to stop the shot cup from spinning.
 

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With a flip of the loading gate, I can dial up 2 rounds of snake shot or 4 .357s.
I carry my Blackhawk loaded like this surveying in the Virginia piedmont. Never shucked it on a copperhead or very rare timber rattler. Not threatened/defensive, best left alone, they usually move on. Now the cottonmouth will aggressively test you. I'd at least get my hand on it if I crossed one. This time of the year, my nemesis is bees. Wish I had a defense for yellow jackets and hornets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
This time of the year, my nemesis is bees. Wish I had a defense for yellow jackets and hornets.
I was once expecting Copperheads when harvesting garlic, so I had my snub with me. Guess what?

30 or so Yellowjacket stings. I brought a gun to a bee fight :) Later that evening, I put on my beekeeping suit and drowned the nest in boiling, soapy water. Harvested a lot of garlic, too.
 
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