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Criminals and the Guns They Carry

5K views 22 replies 21 participants last post by  Quiet 1 
#1 ·
#2 ·
While he created his study with a very small sample (less than 100), I think that most of his conclusions are reasonable. Overall a good read and food for thought.
 
#4 ·
Good article with lots of info. The only thing I would tend to slightly disagree with is the carrying enough gun thing. I whole-heartedly agree with what he is saying in the general sense. At the same time I know many who buy 'enough' gun to carry and then don't carry it because it is uncomfortable for one reason or the other or not concealable in the type of clothing they are wearing. I still contend that it is better to buy a CCW that you will actually carry. While not ideal, a two shot .22 that you have on you is still better than the .45 you have at home.
 
#5 ·
I think it would help to know what kind of crimes the weapons were seized from. Were they domestic violence calls where the subject had the gun on him? A DUI that the weapon was seized for safe keeping to be picked up later? Or were they from drug arrests, gang arrests, assaults and robberies? That would play a big part on the types of guns you would run into and their conditions. Were the guns stolen or legally obtained? A criminal with a stolen gun is more likely to have a better gun, but his history could have an effect on the condition of the gun. History of gang violence or assaults might lead to having less than full magazine capacities, but could mean that he has used the gun before. A 10 round magazine loaded with 6 rounds means he was either given the gun, stole the gun and didn't know much about it, or knows a lot about it and has used it before and hasn't had the opportunity to get more ammo for it.
 
#6 ·
Should we be happy that Ruger was the number one brand for those bad guys?

Or was it that Rugers were most popular with those who had their guns stolen by these bad guys?
 
#14 ·
For what it's worth, in 23 years of full-time LE I have yet to encounter a criminal armed with a legally-purchased firearm. All who were armed were carrying stolen weapons, and exactly none were guns I'd personally want. Usually something along the lines of a Lorcin .380, or a Hi Point something or other. No Glocks, no Berettas, no Rugers. Of course, a gun doesn't have to be a well-known brand to be used in a crime, but you get my point.
 
#16 ·
I wonder what happens to the "name brand" stolen guns? Do they get sold to "mostly" law abiding people for their collections, or do they leave them at home so as not to loose their more expensive guns:p?
 
#15 ·
Good read, thanks.
 
#17 ·
It was an interesting read but, in my opinion, not of much value. I thought this response, in the "Comments" section, submitted by Mike Lilly articulates well my concerns about the piece. (Edited for brevity.)

"As a retired police officer of 32 years from a large southern police department I am rather agast at the conclusions you have reached, from what appears in this article, to be an insubstantial data set.

Firstly, you provide no timeframe regarding the intake of these firearms. Did these LAST eighty-five firearms come in over a period of a week or five years? Secondly, what crimes were the persons arrested for who had possesion of these guns? Armed robbery, DWI, traffic violations?

Yes, it makes a difference. Where were the firearms found? Just saying someone was a “criminal” and they had a firearm on them or in their vicinity does not mean It played any part nor that they had any intention to, or actually did, use the firearm in the commission of a crime.

And if there was no use or intention to use said firearm in any “crime”, then any assumptions or references made regarding the status’ of those particuliar weapons are invalid on their face and have no place in the dataset.

My professional background has put me in a position to always evaluate information provided to me using the Two Prong Approach – which requires me to pay as much attention to both what people say AND what they do NOT say.

The imformation NOT provided in this article leads me to the opinion that your conclusions are not well founded due to lacking important and relevant information.

CITIZENS: For practical application: ALL GUNS ARE LOADED, ALL AMMUNITION WILL KILL YOU, and YOUR ATTACKER IS CAPABLE OF KILLING YOU AND WILL TRY.

Formulate your response with those “facts” in your mind. The condition of your attacker’s weapon or ammunition or capability is not something for you to consider either in your training or, especially, when the “steel leaves the leather” in the fight for your life. All it will do is enlarge your OODA Loop and slow you down!"
 
#18 ·
:confused: The comment by Mike Lily doesn't invalidate the article. The author said clearly the results would be different in other locales. I have no problem with the data as presented. If someone has a different data set, do your own analysis but don't trash someone else's study for no reason.

The point of the article was to help educate us on our criminal enemies, and it did that well.
 
#23 ·
The comment by Mike Lily doesn't invalidate the article. The author said clearly the results would be different in other locales. I have no problem with the data as presented. If someone has a different data set, do your own analysis but don't trash someone else's study for no reason. The point of the article was to help educate us on our criminal enemies, and it did that well.
Hey John, I didn't trash the article. I said I found it an interesting read but, for me, not much value in learning anything.

If, for you, it "helped educate you on your criminal enemies", that's wonderful.

Perhaps, since I don't use words like "invalidate" and "data set" in conversation very often, the article was simply too complex for me to glean any meaningful value from it. :)
 
#19 · (Edited)
As a kid, I worked in the famous Bell's Gunshop in Chicago. Bell's had an indoor range and I had many opportunities to view what our customers were doing in the range. They shot up the walls, floor, put holes in the ceiling and for most, the safest place was directly in front of the shooter!

I disagree with the tiny gun comments. In summer, I carry one of the .380 pocket pistols. In winter, I change to a mini 9x19. I can assure you that If I had to strap on a lot of gear before I left the house, I just wouldn't do it! Carry Small But Carry Always is my motto.

In the US, we are obsessed with large, powerful hand cannons and we are the only nation that sees it that way. I see no reason to bring a Rhino gun with me when I leave the house! A HIT....ANY hit with a .22 is far better than a miss with a .44 magnum. I've been shot and I know what I'm talking about. It isn't fun regardless of what you're hit with!

In January, my friend was murdered by two thugs who wanted his fancy watch. He was visiting his Grandmother and because he was on familiar ground, left his carry piece behind. 35 years old and beaten to death because he made a bad decision. Carry Small But Carry Always!

Flash
 
#20 ·
I disagree with the tiny gun comments. In summer, I carry one of the .380 pocket pistols. In winter, I change to a mini 9x19. I can assure you that If I had to strap on a lot of gear before I left the house, I just wouldn't do it! Carry Small But Carry Always is my motto.
+1
I feel perfectly fine with the snubby I always carry- if I need more I have a carbine in my vehicle which leads me to the next point I disagree with the author on where he says 'leave the rifle and plate armor at home.'

In the city where I work, there are occasionally race related 'flash mobs' or mini 'riots' that pop up whenever there is a gathering of people. The most notable was outside the WI state fair a year ago where mobs of blacks were attacking whites. A 'flash mob' also occurred a few blocks from where I work where a gas station was robbed and several whites were severely beaten at a park across the street.
A lot of people were on high alert last week in case Obama lost the election.
 
#21 ·
I am a member of the “be overly prepared” and “go big or stay home” groups. I carry a full size 1911 .45 ACP or a Glock G20SF 10mm and spare magazines when I go out of the house in addition to my pocket backup .380 AP and spare magazines.

I was with a group of LEOs one day when they were talking about the body armor they wear. I mentioned that most of my rifles and many of my handguns would go right through the body armor. They laughed and said they didn’t worry about people like me. They said the gangbangers keep the cheap small pocket pistols with the cheapest ammo and sell the good stuff. They were talking about the guns they took off of gangbangers that were inoperable or had the wrong ammo in it.
 
#22 ·
One thing I did notice, in that gaggle of weaponry, hanging on his wall, while there were revolvers, big and small, old and new, I even saw what appeared to be a break top revolver (similar to a S&W Schofield type, but more modern), I did not see any single actions, in the bunch, at least none, in the traditional style of a hogleg, or Bisley, or Birdshead grip. Some of those cheapies, might have been SA's, but I sure didn't see any Blackhawk/SAA style revolvers in the bunch.
Not that it means anything, I just didn't see anything. And I looked it over, pretty closely, just from the standpoint, of testing my skill for recognition, with limited view.
 
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