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DEAF

18K views 116 replies 67 participants last post by  Mark204 
#1 ·
I get the concealed carry deal, got it. The one thing I think that folks overlook is how much your hearing/ringing starts after the first round is fired. Please understand in a situation other than the range, you won't have hearing protection on and maybe not your glasses. So you can't hear can't see now what? I shot one round of a 357 magnum today with no hearing protection on. Instant problems started, ice picks in my ear, ringing, off balance. Just something to think about.
 
#3 ·
I'm already deaf-too many jet engines in my life. I still wear plugs when I recreational shoot however!
 
#86 ·
Too many turbine engines for me. 4 years, 2 months and 21 days on the airfield (plus an M16 blank being shot off next to my ear in BCT).

OP: I always use hearing protection when I shoot at the range as well. However, if your life depended on it and you had to take a shot the amount of adrenalin pumping through your body would probably make you not notice how loud the shot is. I would recommend that you always use hearing protection when you discharge a firearm, but lets be realistic, in an emergency situation you won't be able to say, "Hold on, let me put in my hearing protection before I discharge my firearm."
 
#4 ·
Sam, It's hard to talk to the 911 operator when you can't hear.

Many years ago I was deer hunting in Colorado. All day long I had a Blue Jay follow me …. squawking from the tree tops. Of course you don't see any deer when the silly bird warns them. I finally got fed up …. drew my Ruger Blackhawk 357 Mag, and used my Jeep for a rest. After I fired, my right ear started bleeding and I couldn't hear anything but ringing from either ear. It took several weeks for my hearing to restore but with healed pierced ear drums my hearing has never returned to normal. I now wear hearing aids in both ears.
 
#5 ·
Have you ever tried it to see how accurate you are after your hearing is gone? Or your vision. With a 357 magnum the first round rings your ears the next 5 you are DEAF. Your ears will be the first thing you worry about not accuracy.
 
#6 ·
I get what you're Sam, But I think I'll disagree you on this and here's why.....I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you hunt. Have you ever heard the report of your weapon in a hunting situation? I hunt with a TC chambered in 7-08 Rem, its basically a pistol shooting a rifle round. Now maybe its just me, but I never hear the gun go off, I believe its because I'm focused on the game.

I'll admit I've never encountered a situation such as you're describing, (don't want to), but maybe the same audio "shut down" would occur. I'm just throwing that out there, I could and probably are wrong though, but it makes some sense......


Here Kitty Kitty
 
#100 ·
I get what you're Sam, But I think I'll disagree you on this and here's why.....I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you hunt. Have you ever heard the report of your weapon in a hunting situation? I hunt with a TC chambered in 7-08 Rem, its basically a pistol shooting a rifle round. Now maybe its just me, but I never hear the gun go off, I believe its because I'm focused on the game.

.


Here Kitty Kitty
I also focus on the game but after a shot (or several) my ears are ringing for sure.

I bet yours are also esp w/ the 'hand cannon'.
 
#8 ·
I think in a "stand your ground" situation where I fire my adrenaline will be pumping so fast that I may not even notice the hearing loss till it is over. I would be so focused at the target that my eye sight and other senses take over. "Fight or flight" for instance. "Eyes on target". And most of all, my survival instincts kick in and if there are multiple targets I can understand the need for hearing but my eye sight will be my biggest friend and life saver. Again, IMO!
 
#9 ·
I have a similar story to Iowegan's..mine came at the range. I had just picked up my brand new Security Six and a box of 357 ammo. Stopped at the range on the way home to try it out sans ear protection. They had picnic tables for your gear. I was at the 50 yard range and using the table top to rest my elbows I cracked one off...realized I had made a grave error and my ear sealed off. No bleeding thankfully...but no hearing out of the tight ear for a couple of days. Never was 100% again...that and many years as a carpenter with screaming saws pretty well finished them off. Even with hearing aids it's difficult to carry on a conversation with my wife. That being said...if it came down to a life threatening moment..I'll sacrifice the rest of my hearing for choosing to live.

On a side note...I had a red squirrel that was intent on letting every creature in the woods know I was there. My .308 BLR made short order of the nuisance. Out in the woods the sound gets absorbed rather quickly.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I've always been concerned with the potential for hearing damage/deafness but it begs the question... what about people in combat situations? What about all those guys in World Wars 1 and 2? They didn't all go deaf from from hearing one or two shots without hearing protection and they were used to hearing more powerful guns then a .357mag. Lots of vets coming back who weren't completely deaf for hearing gunfire. There must be an adrenaline surge that helps protect your hearing under these extreme situations?

Regarding the .357Mag, I would only load up with this caliber for defense if I had planned on being outdoors most of the time, probably in a camping/hiking/hunting scenario where I'm more likely to face 4 legged threats. No way would I want to touch one off inside a vehicle or in my bedroom against a human threat. I want to stop the threat but I also want to continue to be able to hear afterwards.
 
#14 ·
There must be an adrenaline surge that helps protect your hearing under these extreme situations?
There is no such thing as an adrenaline surge that helps protect your hearing. A shooter may not immediately notice the report of a gun, but the damage will be done. Hearing loss is hearing loss plain and simple. The only way to protect your hearing is to not be around loud noises or to muffle the decibel level with hearing protection.

There are lots of vets with hearing loss and many (not all) who don't have hearing loss were in the rear with the gear.
 
#11 ·
Any defensive gun use without hearing protection is going to result in hearing loss. About the only thing you can do to protect yourself is to select an effective caliber that won't damage your hearing as much. I have respect for the capabilities of say the 357 Magnum, but would prefer a quieter round that won't hurt my hearing as much. For instance if I'm going to carry a 3" medium framed revolver I opt for a 44 Special over a 357 Mag for many reasons, but one of them being the lower decibel level.

Decibel Levels

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA

.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.44 Magnum 165 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB
 
#17 ·
Years ago, when I was in the Army, I ended up in a very short (and one-sided) firefight inside a concrete building, pitting me and my .45 ACP (yeah, THAT long ago) against a very angry feral dog. Not pleasant. For a couple hours, everyone who talked to me sounded like the adults in the “Peanuts” cartoons.

Now, I keep a pair of electronic ear muffs in my bedside table, on top of the pistol safe where I keep a loaded GP100 and two speed loaders. If SHTF, I retrieve the revolver, don the muffs (and turn them on) and then I’m ready.


Jim
 
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#20 ·
Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic regarding Tinnitus.
Common causes are excessive or cumulative noise exposure, head and neck injuries, and ear infections. It can occasionally indicate a serious underlying medical condition. There is no cure for tinnitus, but there are ways of managing it. ... Most tinnitus is due to damage to the cochlea, or inner ear.
I've been afflicted with Tinnitus for the last 20 or so years. It's always there..you just have to learn how to put it on ignore. Was it caused by all the noise pollution I allowed into my ears? I can't say I for sure, but probably.

I do know this. A few years ago I was awaiting TKR surgery and there was a backup in operating room. To relax me I was given a injection of something. The ringing in my ears immediately and abruptly stopped. I asked the nurse who administered the injection what it was. She told me but I didn't have anything to write it down, thought I would remember it. Never gave much thought of it until months later but could not recall what it was.
 
#21 ·
Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic regarding Tinnitus.

I've been afflicted with Tinnitus for the last 20 or so years. It's always there..you just have to learn how to put it on ignore. Was it caused by all the noise pollution I allowed into my ears? I can't say I for sure, but probably.

I do know this. A few years ago I was awaiting TKR surgery and there was a backup in operating room. To relax me I was given a injection of something. The ringing in my ears immediately and abruptly stopped. I asked the nurse who administered the injection what it was. She told me but I didn't have anything to write it down, thought I would remember it. Never gave much thought of it until months later but could not recall what it was.
A good deal of tinnitus sufferers are also likely to have high amounts of stress/anxiety or are high-strung people in general. This is not to say there isn't real noise induced hearing loss going on as well but the stress/anxiety makes it worse. The fact that the nurse injected you with some sort of tranquilizer and yours disappeared is a good sign it is mostly stress induced.

The funny thing is that even if you think you feel normal, that you are not under any particular stress you are probably just more stress/anxiety filled then a "normal" person in general, you just been that way for so long you think it's normal. It's a very hard thing to learn to deal with and to overcome, I know. That is why so many are on drugs like Prozac these days.
 
#24 ·
I never said that, I said a large percentage of tinnitus sufferers also have stress/anxiety and it makes any real noise induced hearing loss they may have worse then it actually is.

If you are injected with a tranquilizer and your tinnitus goes away or greatly diminishes that is stress/anxiety. There is no cure for genuine noise induced tinnitus remember? Or so they say.
 
#25 ·
I was lucky to work in the electric utility industry for many years. They had a terrific focus on personnel safety, including eye and ear protection, and as one of the power plant workers protecting myself became ingrained. Consequently I wear ear plugs for any activity loud enough to cause the least bit of hearing discomfort (mowing, tractor work, hammering, etc). It's important to react immediately because that discomfort will go away with continued exposure but damage is being done. At the range I wear plugs under my muffs and it has saved me several times when I forgot to put my muffs back on. My hearing is still excellent at 64.

A retired orthopedic surgeon friend of mine says he thinks it is somewhat genetic also. He had a partner who never wore ear protection, was a prolific shooter, and never seemed to suffer any ill effects. We have no way to know if that will be us, or if we will go deaf, so protection is the way to go.
 
#26 ·
Hell....I don't know about the rest of you...but I probably need to get me a prescription for Prozac.. LoL...if the ringing doesn't go away...I probably won't care.
 
#27 ·
I was born with tinnitus. That said, it is always humming in the background somewhere but I have had great hearing otherwise. When I shot 2 mags of +P+ 9mm out in the woods w/o hearing protection, everything in my left ear went muffled for about 2 days but no big problem. I have since been to the indoor range, with ear plugs in AND muffs, and the blast from 10mm going off in the stall next to me went right below my muffs, directly into the bones and ear fluid! It hurt so bad I had to leave and it took over a year before the ringing and hearing recovered to where it did not seem like I was under water.
 
#29 ·
I don't think I presented this in the right way to start with and I apologize. With Concealed Carry being around now I think your hearing is something that needs to be addressed in the class. Not long term short term.

A lot of folks pay to take these classes that may or may not have ever been around a handgun ever. I think it is important to teach people that your hearing will be impaired as soon as you start shooting without hearing protection. Adrenaline will maybe make it not hurt if your in a bad situation and your amped up, but you won't hear as well or at all.

If your vision is bad and you wear glasses that is also a concern. Your glasses got knocked off or your contact is in your eyelid. So you can't see very good or hear. Now what?

It's not a normal day at the range. You just went out to get some milk at the store and it turned into this.

Just something to think about.
 
#30 ·
I instruct CPL classes here in Michigan. Guns are LOUD is addressed in class and again on the range in real time. There probably isn't going to be time to secure hearing protection. With me it boils down to this...if I am in a life threatening situation where I have to draw my firearm and use it.. I'll gladly sacrifice some hearing impairment over mine or a loved ones life everyday of the week!
 
#31 ·
I appreciate what you said Agree. I'm sure you can't tell your students to take off their hearing protection and eye glasses in a class and shoot 7 rounds from a 45 auto at 15 yards. You would be sued. First off if you can't see that's not good second if you can't hear that's double not good. If you haven't experienced it it's not fun. And again I'm not talking about long term hearing loss. It's short term your deaf and blind now what?
 
#33 ·
It's short term your deaf and blind now what?
I came across some statistics relating to self defense shooting, since it was on the inter-web who knows how true it really is, right? I believe it said the "average shooting", (define average), takes place at a range of seven feet and lasts 2.5 seconds. So, with that in mind I say you keep pullin' the trigger till you're empty............problem solved. :D

On the serious side, most of us will never be in that position, your chances may increase if you in or near the ghetto.


Here Kitty Kitty
 
#32 ·
While deer hunting I hardly know the gun goes off. I am both hearing and mildly recoil sensitive. Adrenaline kinda blocks it out. I'm not saying it won't cause hearing damage, I just don't notice it. Truth time: Quite a few years back I was laying on my couch playing with a 45 pistol. I learned the hard way to follow the 4 rules of gun safety. A negligent (dumbass) discharge. Lucky I remembered to always point in a safe direction and just ventilated my wall.... It was the quietest firearm discharge I can remember. Seemed less than a 22 short from a rifle. Again probably caused hearing damage but I probably got more hearing damage from my wife correctly screaming at me and letting me know how she really felt. Wear protection when you can. Between hearing and death though, I choose to live.
 
#34 ·
Look into "Auditory Exclusion", it may explain why many combat veterans/police officers may not have experienced hearing loss.

"During combat situations there are a variety of perceptual distortions caused by biomechanical changes in the body. "Auditory exclusion" is when sounds like gunfire stop being heard or are muted."

Citation: Grossman, Dave and Loren W. Christensen. On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and Peace. 2nd ed. PPCT Research Publications, 2007.
 
#36 ·
Sam I agree with your concerns. It is one reason I moved away from my 357 ammo and only load 38's for possible SD. It is a risk I don't like but accept I may hurt my hearing with gun fire in a SD situation. At least with a 9mm semi I hope to lesson the chance some.
 
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