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I've been on a quest for numbers regarding .45 Colt +P, and checking out all the sites that make it. I'm not looking for hunting ammmo -- I want it for defense. This is kind of a hangover from my .45 ACP philosophy where +P is a good thing, but the potential difference between ACP and LC +P is significant. .45 Colt can be made to go a lot faster, and this makes me wonder what the ideal numbers are. They're probably what they always were, huh? Though we've made faster powders and better bullets since 1872, there is probably a 'sweet spot' for a 250 gr bullet of .45 caliber, and I suspect it's lower than what I'm looking for.

I read a comment from Linebaugh, who said he carries a S&W M25 loaded with a 260 gr Keith bullet at between 950 and 1000 fps for general purpose work; faster and heavier in the mountains. I like this philosophy, if only because it's going to be a more manageable load than the screamers. The same idea seems to translate to the .44 Special. The old timers like big Keith bullets at sub-sonic speeds. What is it about the .45 LSWC that makes it the equal (or the better?) of the smaller calibers, going much faster, in JHP designs? Diameter? Weight? Combination thereof?
 

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Now don't go quoting me here " but " I believe the old Colt load was asked to kill a Horse at a reasonable distance and the load resembled a 250 gr. lead bullet at about 900 FPS
Give or take a tad cause I don't have my eyes in the book right now.
You mention personnel defense load as in personnel protection.
I don't think to many bad guys are going to be personally defended from a 250 grain lead or jacketed bullet at 900 FPS at 5--7--or 10 yards
This is kind of a hangover from my .45 ACP philosophy where +P is a good thing,
Take something for the hangover and move on, the 45 ACP with 230 gr. ball ammo (FMJ)
at 850 FPS will stop about any fight on the planet. When the bad guys body hits the ground it don't have to land in the next county, it just has to be not moving anymore.
Also keep in mind other Calibers may get bigger, but a 45 ain't gonna get any smaller.
Faster may in some cases not be better, you want the energy dump inside the target
not 50 yards behind it.
Incapacitating shots ( as in drop right now ) are the results of a couple of things,
central nervous system interruption and rapid drop in blood pressure,
There's a lot of hype with all the new self defense ammo being sold today,
not saying that some are not better than others. I can attest to the fact that you don't want to be any place near a 230 grain gold dot at 850 to 900 fps
You had a problem with the 45 ACP, one of the best fight stoppers on the planet.
How much fight to you want to stop ? Accept the ACP as a good defense round and you will be comfortable with the 45 colt round at 900 F P S.
You can always take a walk through Boot hill cemetery I think there is a marker that reads.
Here lies charlie Moore--one shot from a 44--no more-- Charlie Moore.
 

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gray,
I ran over to Boot Hill to check it out. It says "Here lies Leslie Moore - three shots from a 44 - no less, no more".
 

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I cannot speak to what's best in a .45 Colt load, but I do have a fairly strong opinion RE: +P ammunition. While +P loads can be useful in otherwise "underpowered" calibers, I don't find it necessary in a 1911-style auto. This may be overly simplistic, but .45 ACP 230 gr. rounds were enough for my grandfather, & tens of thousands of other guys, when they were fighting in the Pacific in WWII. My chances of experiencing anything like that are remote, to say the least. Basically, I see no need to fix what ain't broken.
 

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Charlie was three graves over, hey I took my best recollection.
In any case I do think you are correct.
 

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The think about any 45 is that it lets in lots of air and light and lets out lots of liquid...actually if you really want to be sure get a 454 Cassie or a 500...I shoot lots of moderate loads of 45 Colt and I'd sure hate to try to stand up to those...or a 230 grain ball 45 acp....Look at the Chrono you tubes on gelatin blocks for the 45's...wow!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
"When the bad guys body hits the ground it don't have to land in the next county..."

"The .45 lets in lots of light..."

Appropriate quotes.

I believe the .45 caliber, whether Colt or ACP, is adequate at standard velocities. I was on the lookout for a hot round because I went to so much trouble to find a Blackhawk or original Vaquero (found a Vaquero) to shoot it in, or I wouldn't have spent the time. Most of the +P stuff out there is too hot anyway -- 1300 - 1400 fps. There are overpentration and controllability issues with loads like that. Go the other way in a commercial load, and the CAS stuff seems too slow -- 750 fps.

I found a 950-1000 250 gr GC bullet (Buffalo Bore) but I'll only pay $37 for 20 rds once, then I call Parabellum Research and have them load it for me.

I would love to have a bona fide Keith bullet, but I guess any LSWC will do. I have two boxes of Remington (at $50 a box!) but they're only 225 gr.
 

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The added velocity of +p in a 45 colt won't do a dang bit of good if the bullet isn't designed to take advantage of it.
A 250gr SWC @ 950 fps will shoot through any man, 1000 fps or more isn't going to make any difference. 1400 might make a little difference in the first hole but it'll take a lot longer to get a second hole if you know what I mean.

I think that the Speer 250gr golddot load may be one of the best anti personel rounds avaliable. check out some of the testimonials on midway.
Speer Gold Dot Ammo 45 Colt (Long Colt) 250 Grain Jacketed Hollow
 

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Standard 45acp will do fine on two legged violent animals, HP or ball will do the the job if you can hit center mass.
Why beat the pistol up with +p unless you think you really need the extra power for self defense. Even then, which can you shoot and control the best under pressure?
 
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