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I have a boat load of 200 grain lead Missouri Bullet #4 "cowboy" projectiles that I've loaded for a long time in my Ruger .45 Colt Vaqueros. They are a lead round nose flat point with a hardness of 12 and "blue crayola" lube.

The diameter is .452 which is the same as Missouri's 45acp lrnfp...in fact it looks to be the same mold...just softer lead for the cowboy #4 name.

I got no issues loading the softer bullet for my CZ 97...the only issue i have at all is determining the COL for the round...being a flat nose (with a fairly large metplate flat nose) should I start working with the "crimp" location on the bullet and a taper crimp? When I load this bullet for the 45 Colt I set the bullet to where the roll crimp just fits in to the ridge at the "crimp" ring...I'd think if I simply taper crimp to this same location, do a "plunk test" with the barrel and then cycle about 5 dummy rounds to check the magazine feed, I might be good to go for live rounds.

Any comments or direction much appreciated.
thanks
opos
 

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I have a boat load of 200 grain lead Missouri Bullet #4 "cowboy" projectiles that I've loaded for a long time in my Ruger .45 Colt Vaqueros. They are a lead round nose flat point with a hardness of 12 and "blue crayola" lube.

The diameter is .452 which is the same as Missouri's 45acp lrnfp...in fact it looks to be the same mold...just softer lead for the cowboy #4 name.

I got no issues loading the softer bullet for my CZ 97...the only issue i have at all is determining the COL for the round...being a flat nose (with a fairly large metplate flat nose) should I start working with the "crimp" location on the bullet and a taper crimp? When I load this bullet for the 45 Colt I set the bullet to where the roll crimp just fits in to the ridge at the "crimp" ring...I'd think if I simply taper crimp to this same location, do a "plunk test" with the barrel and then cycle about 5 dummy rounds to check the magazine feed, I might be good to go for live rounds.

Any comments or direction much appreciated.
thanks
opos
opos, I have some 200 grain Berry's RNFP that I load that way & they end up being 1.190" & work great in my 1911
 

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I loaded up some of my cast Lee 200gr. RF (bhn of 11-12 coww) with a crimp groove, that I load for .45 Colt, into acp cases and shot them through my 1911 with no issues. I seated them just to the rear most edge of the crimp groove and taper crimped lightly in a separate step with the Lee seat/crimp die. Not the FCD, as it will re size the .452 lead bullet too small. They passed the plunk test and and ended up at a OAL of 1.230" Hope this helps opos.
 

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moakes58, I can't imagine a 45 ACP being 1.910" long. Is your caliper broke or did you misread it??? 1.2" sounds about right.
 

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moakes58, I hope you are recovering from your surgery ... and the effects of those pain pills. I knew there had to be a reason why a .898" case and a bullet .650" long couldn't possibly be 1.9" long.:)
 

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moakes58, I hope you are recovering from your surgery ... and the effects of those pain pills. I knew there had to be a reason why a .898" case and a bullet .650" long couldn't possibly be 1.9" long.:)
Thank you sir. I had rotator cuff surgery. It's a slow process.
I am using a Berry's 200 gr. RNFP bullet that is 0.540" & they work well for me.

I also use them in my .50 cal. muzzle loader with a sabot & they are very accurate.

My caliper, by the way, is the 6" unit that you recommended from Harbor Freight & it works great. They have the same electronic unit on them that the higher priced ones have for about $10 on sale.
 

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I think you're on the right track. I have reloaded some cast bullets with a crimp groove for my 45 ACPs. I disregard the crimp groove and use the "plunk test" to determine OAL. And, I do not "crimp" my semi-auto ammo, I simply use a taper crimp die to remove any flare in the case mouth to insure good feeding/chambering. I only "deflare" my semi-auto ammo...:cool:
 

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OPOS, You are on the right track. I loaded some 255 grain, .352, RNFP bullets I cast for my 45 Colt Ruger BH, over 4 grains of Hodgdons Clays, in .45 ACP cases, with no problems........robin :)
 

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Just my standard COL comment:

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel--no bullet needed).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber. If there isn't a barrel hood, use a sized case and compare where its case head stops compared to your loaded round. You can also mark-up a case as described below.
If you have chambering problems, remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case at the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem.
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
 

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I think the previous post offers good advice. I would add make sure the reloaded cartridge will load into the magazine without binding. I would suggest the COL should be somewhere around 2.27 inches max.
 

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Whenever I substitute bullets of same weight but different shape (ie length), I measure the two bullet lengths and adjust my COAL to have the same volume inside the case.

For example, say your FN bullet was .050 shorther than the RN you're used to, then make the COAL .050 shorter and the volume behind the bullet and therefore the pressure based on case volume will be unchanged. As in - Safe.
 

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VIN666's procedure is the safest and best ... by far. Using a "plunk test" really doesn't tell you much .... except the bullet isn't seated too far out. A cartridge with a bullet seated too deep will pass the "plunk test" but will increase chamber pressure, possibly to dangerous levels.

When you use "mystery" bullets, such as Missouri Bullet Co ... that aren't listed in your reloading manual, it's much safer to seat the bullets out a far as possible where they will still fully chamber and will fit in the magazine.

Of course the best solution is to buy bullets that are the same brand as your reloading manual then use the factory recommended COL.
 

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One method I have used - is if you have factory loads with the same projectile profile - measure that and use it as a guide.

Another - when comparing a flat point to a round nose is to compare where the nose would be on the flat going if it were not flattened.

VIN666's procedure seems like a more scientific method that I think would be better than mine - unless of course I were to pull a factory round and determine that my methods are effectively a shortcut with the same results - then I would still say that VIN666's description of how and why to make the adjustment are superior and should be more general applicable to a variety of rounds - especially if you start getting into hollow points or solid copper etc - the key is not the COAL but the resulting volume that COAL gives - of course it is far easier measure the COAL than it is the final volume inside the case when you are done reloading.
 

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Thanks for the kind words. Haha

I have a spreadsheet that I put together to calculate effective case volume changes (among other things) to fine tune rounds, but to just substitute one bullet for another the comparison of bullet length and then the compensation of COAL is sufficient IF: the new bullet is not of a type that runs higher pressure than the bullet being replaced.
Meaning: Copper solid > Jacketed > Plated > Lead.
As in, you can replace a solid with any of the others, but not a lead load with a solid etc.
 

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Here is the easiest way to determine the OAL you should be able to use for any particular bullet/pistol combo.

1. Remove the barrel from the gun.
2. Measure the length of the bullet.
3. Drop the bullet into the chamber and measure from the base of the bullet to the top of the barrel hood where the cartridge would be flush with the barrel using veneer calipers.
4. Add the two measurements together and subtract 2 - 3 thousandths.

Provided the cartridge is not to long to load in your magazine this should be the max length of cartridge for that bullet in that gun. The method is simple and fool proof.

Take Care

Bob
 

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Sorry, I just had surgery & am on pain pills. My RNFP loads are 1.190"

1.9" is a little long!:)
Non of my business moakes58 but as I am that kinda guy that takes the car keys from a buddy who has been drinking, I think we need to take away your press till your off the pain pills. :( :eek:

Explosives + alcohol = bad idea :D

Reloading + pain pills = bad idea :D
 

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Non of my business moakes58 but as I am that kinda guy that takes the car keys from a buddy who has been drinking, I think we need to take away your press till your off the pain pills. :( :eek:

Explosives + alcohol = bad idea :D

Reloading + pain pills = bad idea :D

It has been 6 weeks since my surgery & I am off the pills & going to physical therapy & doing well. It is hard to reload with 1 arm.
I may even try to go to the range Friday:cool:

Thanks for your concern, but I have 1 of the new presses with a breathalyzer;)
 
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