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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see this on a pretty frequent basis at the range. Some guy with a double action revolver or striker-fired semiauto is "squeezing" off shots. I mean a real, slow-motion trigger pull, maybe takes a full 2 seconds or so from the time the hammer starts to move until the cartridge lights off.

Then comes the pride over "how accurate my striker-fired (or double action) gun is".

I think maybe that is a bit self deceiving. If you ever have to use the gun in real life, those shots are going to be snapped off quickly. If you have ever done that at the range we are talking about a whole different type of group as well as point of impact.

Thoughts?
 

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What is the point? Shoot for accuracy slow steady pressure, everyone don't shoot for speed. SD is different from trying to put every shot in the 10 ring. One should practice both.
 

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the trigger pull on my Redhawk in my opinion is a LOT. maybe because the trigger is doing two things at once.

so I pull the hammer back before firing like someone with a single action revolver would do.

I don't think there is much of a difference, other than a single action revolver you're required to pull the hammer back every time, like Clint Eastwood did in every one of his Western movies, and it worked for him quite well.

and with dual action the trigger sets the hammer and then fires.

can you adjust the trigger pull on a Redhawk?
 

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I don't believe most of what I hear/read about gun accuracy even when someone posts the targets to "prove" it. Unless I'm there to witness it myself I usually just ignore it. I have a couple of friends I believe but pretty much everything else I chalk up to maybe and maybe not.

As has been said, there's a huge difference between slow fire DA and rapid fire DA. Slowly squeezing until it stacks and then breaking off a shot isn't nearly the same as squeezing the trigger in one quick steady motion (under a second). One is essentially single action. The other is true DA. Big difference.
 

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What is the point? Shoot for accuracy slow steady pressure, everyone don't shoot for speed. SD is different from trying to put every shot in the 10 ring. One should practice both.
+1
I'm all for learning to shoot a gun accurately, concentrating on sight alignment and trigger press. Speed will come. I see too many guys banging away at the range just spraying rounds all over the target at short range. Speed drills should never compromise on accuracy. Remember, you are responsible for every projectile that exits your weapon's muzzle. My goal is to end any violent confrontation using as few rounds as possible.
 

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"Staging" a DA trigger is not something you're gonna do in a real life fight, just like a so called "instructor" tried to train me to use the Glock trigger "reset", yeah like on a two-way firing range I'm going to be trying to feel for a little "click" in a trigger reset to make my shot groups tighter......

In reality, with a DA revolver or striker fired auto, if the threat is within point shooting distance, you're gonna jerk that handgun out of the holster and slap that trigger like you're shooting skeet.........let's not lie to ourselves:)
 

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Thoughts?

You asked.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. If they are having fun doing it....SO WHAT?
 

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There's never a lot of sense bragging that a mini-van is fast, but...

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast...

The more a person practices DA slow fire, the more they can close the gap between their slow fire group accuracy and rapid fire groups. The same technique applies when you fire DA fast vs. slow, it just has to happen faster.

There's a big difference in drawing the trigger and letting your sights slide from New York to LA, then getting back on target and learning to draw the trigger smoothly and with consistent hold on the target. The more a shooter practices their trigger pull slowly and smoothly, the better they'll get at breaking them off quickly with the same sight control.

And largely, the point is moot - How long are you "on trigger" with a single action trigger for slow fire groups? Nobody is shooting their best groups in rapid fire, regardless of the trigger.

DA rapid fire groups are bigger than DA slow fire groups; SA rapid fire groups are bigger than SA slow fire groups too. There's a reason slow fire AND rapid fire CoF's exist. One determines how well you can shoot, one determines how well you can shoot fast (aka - do the wheels come off?) - both have to happen.
 

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Hmm. I always start with a new DA revolver with slow pulls. Let my finger learn to trigger. The more firing/dry firing with that DA revolver, the quicker the pulls, the less movement of the front sight.

And, some people like to know how accurate their guns are or if the sights need adjustment or their hand loads.
 

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I see this on a pretty frequent basis at the range. Some guy with a double action revolver or striker-fired semiauto is "squeezing" off shots. I mean a real, slow-motion trigger pull, maybe takes a full 2 seconds or so from the time the hammer starts to move until the cartridge lights off.

Then comes the pride over "how accurate my striker-fired (or double action) gun is".

I think maybe that is a bit self deceiving. If you ever have to use the gun in real life, those shots are going to be snapped off quickly. If you have ever done that at the range we are talking about a whole different type of group as well as point of impact.

Thoughts?
I have no problem with that as long as the shooter doesn't read too much into the results. Slow fire shooting, regardless of trigger mode, has it's place, just as rapid fire shooting has its place. Both are legit forms of shooting. I practice both, though the bulk of my pistol shooting is the slower target variety.

A shooter that portrays staged, slow fire shooting as rapid fire self-defense shooting is either fooling himself/herself or is being dishonest. Very different types of shooting, as you said, though there is common ground. You do have to learn to walk before you can run.
 

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Now matter how fast or slow they squeeze the trigger, THAT is how accurate the pistol was during THAT particular shooting drill and is nothing to be debated.

Comparing range accuracy, to "in the moment" accuracy is a fallacy anyway. You can run all the simulated "drills" you want to run, but unless you have BEEN there, with somebody shooting back at you, there isn't ONE of us who has a clue how accurate you will shoot in THAT situation.

We see it all the time in Police shootings, where multiple officers emptied a mag and hit air. Many tend to scoff at the officers lack of ability or training. But truth be told, many of us would be hard pressed to do better "under fire"
 

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the first instructor I had was an old bullseye shooter. his starting drill was- standing sideways to the target, put off hand in pants pocket, extend gun and arm out straight, line up the sights on the target and begin the "count to 5 trigger pull". the gun would go bang somewhere between 3 and 5 for the "surprise break". grip, sights, breathing, trigger pull- all the fundamentals. then change hands. keep loading 5 rounds, keep shooting, keep working on putting it all together. eventually, you can work up to focusing on the target, raising the gun from low ready and getting off an accurate shot in one fast, smooth motion.
(by the way, this instructor was the guy who told me, "if John Browning wanted you to shoot one of his pistols with 2 hands, he would have designed them with 2 grips". is that funny or what?)
 

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I think you offer a good reminder to practice DA quickly instead of riding it out in slow mo... I agree both are good to practice, but my P94 is so long and hard I tend not to remember practicing the quick squeeze.
 

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We see it all the time in Police shootings, where multiple officers emptied a mag and hit air. Many tend to scoff at the officers lack of ability or training. But truth be told, many of us would be hard pressed to do better "under fire"
Not everyone fits the shoes that many speak about.

It's training and mostly mind set + the timidness of the person behind the trigger. I have been shot at, I won and went home.
I didn't perform the way some have portrayed it to be.
On the other hand I guess it's a good excuse for some not to do well.

Who cares what a person does on a shooting range ? if it makes them happy and no harm is done, let it go.
But anyone that tells you there going to shoot slow fire hammer staging in a gun fight is just full of it.

On average a gun fight may last 2/3 Sec. And be at a distance of contact to perhaps 8/10 yards, about the length of a normal Vehicle is a good example.

If you can't put rounds on target with combat accuracy from the holster in about 1.5 Sec. Your way behind the survival curve, and will probably loose.

Before you knock Striker fired pistols, better go try a Sig P320 It's trigger is very close to my 1911 and shoots just as good. How should I say it ? It's just plain different.
 

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Slow fire (or bench/bag resting) will show you how accurate the firearm is. So, if the shooter is bragging about how accurate the firearm is, he is probably correct. If he is bragging about what a good shooter he/she is, that is a different matter. Double taps will show you how accurate the shooter is. Two totally different aspects.

And how does a shooter get good. Learn the traits of your firearm and practice with it. And how do we practice most things to get from basic level to experienced and/or expert level? Whether it is basketball, golf, fly casting, or shooting you start out slow and then speed up as you gain experience.

Just my opinion, I see nothing wrong with the basic premise. I do have a problem with arrogant, egotistical people who constantly have to feed themselves by claiming "mine is better than yours", but that is a different topic.
 

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I have the same "thought" as many of the replies here. Not everyone is going to the shooting range to practice gunfights. Too each his own.

I do alot of slow-fire, working on accuracy, trying to stay within that 9-ring. If I want to take 6 seconds to fire a shot, I will take 6 seconds. It's my hobby, I do what I enjoy. That said I frequently enjoy just sending lead down the range at a high pace as well :D

Further, when it comes to "proving how accurate the gun is", they better slow fire. In fact, they would better put it on a sandbag or even better in a ransom rest.
Maybe when people talk about how accurate the gun is (or how accurate they are with it), they don't necessarily mean that they would do well in real life. Maybe they just mean that they are happy with their gun.

Also, there is no guarantee that someone able to shoot quickly (and good) in a range is not going to freeze up during a real situation....
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I guess what "triggered" my thoughts on this was the thread on striker-fired accuracy.

In my opinion, a striker-fired semiauto is basically a smooth DA revolver in terms of real-time usage. I know my Kahr is.

I was watching an instructor at the range last week show a (very attractive) lady how to use a S&W .357 DA in DA mode. I think I fired off about 2 or 3 shots in SA mode for every 1 shot she fired in DA mode.

When I shoot in DA at a silhouette target at say, 6 yards, I shoot like I'm being attacked.
If I can keep 4 of 5 shots in center body mass in that mode, I'm pretty happy with my performance.


For tight groups at more distant targets, I'm a SA only kind of guy.
 

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Trooplewis, You can not miss fast enough to win a gun fight! Such renowned gun fighters like Wild Bill Hickock and Wyatt Erp knew this to be true. Learn first to be accurate then work on speed.........robin
 
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