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Hope this doesn't lead to an argument. I emailed Hodgdon about H110 and W296...This is the response I received. After looking over the data, I would say the same as everyone else does...they are the same.



I have been told that we cannot answer the question about if they are the same anymore. I will e-mail you over data. If you look at the data you will see that we list both powders and you can see the charge weight and the velocity that is listed. You should be able to figure this out.

Mike Van ****
Customer Service Representative
Hodgdon Powder Company
6430 Vista Drive
Shawnee, KS 66218
913-362-9455 Ext. 109
 

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There should be no argument............they are the same powder and internet arguments aside, all it takes is a little research to conclude that
 

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Yup, sounds like a six to one person and half dozen to the other scenario.
 

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Hope this doesn't lead to an argument. I emailed Hodgdon about H110 and W296...This is the response I received. After looking over the data, I would say the same as everyone else does...they are the same.



I have been told that we cannot answer the question about if they are the same anymore. I will e-mail you over data. If you look at the data you will see that we list both powders and you can see the charge weight and the velocity that is listed. You should be able to figure this out.

Mike Van ****
Customer Service Representative
Hodgdon Powder Company
6430 Vista Drive
Shawnee, KS 66218
913-362-9455 Ext. 109
Shortly after Hodgdon came out with Trail Boss, I inquired about using TB with jacketed bullets. I received this as their response: "Trail Boss does not like jacketed bullets." If I recall correctly, the respondent's name was Mike.

I emailed back, this question: "How does Trail Boss express this dislike?"

I never got another email from Mike or Hodgdon.

I like their powders. Their attitude, not so much.

Lost Sheep.
 

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I have been told that we cannot answer the question about if they are the same anymore.
Probably Olin complaining that they are talking people out of buying the more expensive Winchester powder and Olin is out of their cut.
 

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grandpabear, Looks like we are on the third horse beating concerning W-296 and H-110. How many times will it take before you believe they are the same????
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
grandpabear, Looks like we are on the third horse beating concerning W-296 and H-110. How many times will it take before you believe they are the same????
Ohh, I belived it when you told me Iowegan. You know what they say about getting reloading advise from the net. I just couldn't resist asking the horse himself.:D
Plus..there were a few that were unsure. This is just the "rest of the story. ..and the end also.;)
 

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Hmmm, I've got just a little bit left of WW296, and a lot of H110, reckon I can mix it without any danger done? After all it is virtually the same.
 

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The "problem" is that so many people never check their loads after going to new lot of powder, so they think any difference in load data indicates a different powder rather than simply a new lot of powder.
I blend my HP38 and W231 as a bottle gets low, but I certainly would NEVER recommend any one else do so. Of course, that does create a very slightly 'new' lot of powder.
I would prefer to blend the powder than simply pour a new lot over an old lot in the powder hopper, and I'm too cheap to throw out good powder, no matter how little there is.
 

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Loose Noose & noylj, I also like to blend my powders. When I buy a new bottle of W-296 or H-110 .... W231 or HP-38 , I'll pour the contents of the old bottle into the new bottle and give it a good shake. Been doing this for at least 30 years and have never seen the slightest bit of difference in my loads.

Lot-to-lot powder changes are not as dramatic as you may think ... gun powders (all brands and types) and primers are two of the tightest quality control products on the market ... and rightfully so. Yes, there is a difference between lots of powder but I doubt if any individual would notice or even be able to measure it. It takes a good lab to see the actual difference in primer or powder lots where changes are on the order of less than 10 fps from lot-to-lot in a typical handgun load.

One thing that does change powder burn rate dramatically is temperature. Powder ALWAYS burns faster as it get hotter .... no exceptions. Some of the newer Hodgdon's rifle powders are formulated to compensate for temperature and do a good job up to 100 deg F. As an example, Varget is an "extreme rated" powder where velocity only increases by 20 fps from 0~100 deg F, whereas with a non-extreme rated powder such as W-748, rifle velocities can easily increase from 200~300 fps over the same temperature range. Of course when velocity changes ... so does chamber pressure, which also always increases with temperature. Reloading manuals take this into consideration and always keep their max loads well below SAAMI max pressure levels so they won't exceed max pressure up to 100 deg F.

Temperature extremes can obviously come from climate conditions ... outdoor temperature, sunshine, shade, etc. Not so obvious yet more dramatic, they can also come from a chamber that gets hot from firing previous ammo. Your hand is a decent thermometer .... about 150 deg F is about the threshold of pain so if you put you hand on the chamber of a rifle or revolver cylinder and can't hold it there, chances are the chamber has heated up to 150 deg or more. One of those new fandangled IR thermometers is just the ticket for measuring chamber temperature. If you keep the chamber temperature at 100 deg F (or below), your loads will chronograph with much tighter max velocity spreads. Brass cases conduct heat very well so when you chamber a live round in a hot chamber, it only takes about 10 seconds to heat up the powder and make it burn faster. In almost all instances, this is why you may see a notable difference and blame it on "powder lots" when indeed it a difference in powder temperature. The old Speer #11 manual has a chart on page 485 that shows how temperature affects velocity ... definitely worth looking at.

The newer Speer #14 manual (page 771) has an interesting chart that shows the velocity of three different 357 Magnum loads (125gr, 140gr, & 158gr) in several different brands of revolvers and different barrel lengths. This chart proves beyond a shadow of a doubt ... variations in guns account for far more velocity changes than you might imagine. What's interesting about the chart is ... they chronographed three different S&W Mod 19s with the same 6" barrel and three different Colt Pythons, also with the same 6" barrel. There is just as much variation within the same brand as there is from brand-to-brand.

Specifications such as the B/C gap, cylinder throat diameter, variation in chambers, bore diameter, rifling, and of course barrel length can have a impact on velocity .... mainly due to pressure leaks. The chart also has a 10" T/C Contender that outshoots a Ruger BH with a 10" barrel by 200 fps in all three bullet weights. This proves the theory about B/C gap losses.

Bottom line .... if you decide to do a "powder lot check", make sure you use the same exact gun, the same exact chronograph, at the same ambient temperature, and let the chamber cool to 100 deg before firing the next round. You also need to use the same primers, powder charge, cases, and bullets .... seated to the same exact depth with the same crimp or your tests will be invalid. Better yet .... use the old powder and new powder in the same loading session .... keeping everything else exactly the same. I have done this several times and found the difference between powder lots was within normal max velocity spreads. In other words, virtually no difference.
 

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I thank ya lowegan, I was just being a bit facetious, I've probably have enough WW296 for about 6-10 loads of .44 Magnum, but I've got at least 2#'s of H110 that I've been using for .410 shells, as well as .30 Carbine. Reckon I'll mix them with a # of H110.
 

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I won't email for C.S. for any of the shooting sport manufacturers, an old fashioned telephone call works better. You get a dialog rather a series of monologues as well as a feel for what the rep.is really saying.
The response is instant as well.
 

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At the risk of beating a dead horse just a little more. I received my October 2015 Handloader Magazine today. There is an article about powder. On Page 54 the H110/WW296 item is mentioned for all those who may have access to a copy.
 

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Shortly after Hodgdon came out with Trail Boss, I inquired about using TB with jacketed bullets. I received this as their response: "Trail Boss does not like jacketed bullets." If I recall correctly, the respondent's name was Mike.

I emailed back, this question: "How does Trail Boss express this dislike?"

I never got another email from Mike or Hodgdon.

I like their powders. Their attitude, not so much.

Lost Sheep.
That's funny, but it is a valid question on your part: why not use jacketed bullets with Trail Boss powder? I think they may have taken offense to the 'way' (with humor) that you phrased your question. Laced a bit too tightly, they may be... Maybe working with tons of powerful propellant powders makes one permanently serious...?
 
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