Glass bedding a semi-auto
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RNettles, When you have a 2-piece stock design such as the 7400, bedding really doesn't do a thing for accuracy. Though 7400s are reasonably accurate, they will never be a target grade rifle. Partly because of the stock design but mostly because of the loose chamber and throat required for positive feeding in a semi-auto.
The issue is heat related... after 1 or 2 rounds the POI starts to drift right and low... Is there a fix or is that "Just how they are"?
I guess that the alternative is to trade up to a Remington 700 bolt... Which 700 do you recommend?
I guess that the alternative is to trade up to a Remington 700 bolt... Which 700 do you recommend?
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Why not a Ruger 77? [?]
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RNettles, I used to have a Rem 742 in '06 that was the same way. It's a catch 22 with those guns. Here you buy a semi-auto for a fast second or third shot and find out heat moves your POI. With my 742, I had to wait a full 15 minutes in between shots when I was zeroing a scope or shooting for groups. My groups would spread from 2 or 3 inches to more than 8 inches if I didn't let the barrel cool down. Unfortunately, there's really not much you can do except slow your rate of fire down. No amount of bedding or free float is going to help.
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Wow! That's quite a question. Of course everyone will chime in with their favorites.
A lot depends on the thickness of your wallet. From my gunsmith prospective, several brands come to mind. Tikka T3 is a great gun with guaranteed 1 MOA accuracy right out of the box. Competitive price and a real smooth gun. If your wallet is full, a SAKO is about as good as it gets in a standard production rifle.
We can't forget the Ruger Mod 77. They are a fine rifle with super features. I really like their scope mounting system, the steel or stainless steel floor plate, and they are the easiest gun on the market to do a trigger job and free float the barrel. Out-of-the-box accuracy isn't as good as a Tikka but a few minutes on the work bench will even the playing field.
The two most popular rifles are the Winchester Mod 70 and the Remington Mod 700. Both are excellent.
If you could let us know your intended use, it would help a lot. Are you planning to scope it? Target shooting? Elk? Deer? Moose? etc??
A lot depends on the thickness of your wallet. From my gunsmith prospective, several brands come to mind. Tikka T3 is a great gun with guaranteed 1 MOA accuracy right out of the box. Competitive price and a real smooth gun. If your wallet is full, a SAKO is about as good as it gets in a standard production rifle.
We can't forget the Ruger Mod 77. They are a fine rifle with super features. I really like their scope mounting system, the steel or stainless steel floor plate, and they are the easiest gun on the market to do a trigger job and free float the barrel. Out-of-the-box accuracy isn't as good as a Tikka but a few minutes on the work bench will even the playing field.
The two most popular rifles are the Winchester Mod 70 and the Remington Mod 700. Both are excellent.
If you could let us know your intended use, it would help a lot. Are you planning to scope it? Target shooting? Elk? Deer? Moose? etc??
I've been looking at Remington 700's... Primary mission Deer Rifle, scoped with 4-12X40...Max Point Blank Range ~250-300 in .270 WIN...
I was also looking at this...
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M77® Mark II · All-Weather® Ultra Light
Click to check it out on Ruger's Web Site
I am going to start shopping this weekend... Wifey is going out of town...
I was also looking at this...
M77® Mark II · All-Weather® Ultra Light
Click to check it out on Ruger's Web Site
I am going to start shopping this weekend... Wifey is going out of town...
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210 Posts
Smart guy!quote:Originally posted by RNettles
I am going to start shopping this weekend... Wifey is going out of town...
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18,840 Posts
I lived in Colorado for 7 years and soon found out what works and what doesn't for mule deer and elk (moose too, but I never hunted them). In theory, a 270 is nothing more than a 30-'06 necked down to 27 cal. In practical use, the 270 takes advantage of features found only in a handful of cartridges. The heavier 270 bullets have high sectional density and high ballistic coefficient. This combination makes for excellent penetration, expansion, and accuracy.
If I had to choose just one gun for all big game hunting needs, it would be a 270 Win. Side-by-side comparisons to other cartridges may favor the other cartridge in a few categories but if you look at the overall picture, the 270 comes out on top. The other non-magnum cartridges with near equal performance are the 6.5X55 Swede, 7X57 Mauser, and the 280 Rem. Yes, you can go to the heavy magnums and get more performance with brute strength but in a standard rifle with a standard cartridge, a 270 is hard to beat.
I don't agree with your scope selection but then it's not my gun. If you hunt a lot, you'll find the higher power scopes have too many disadvantages for the single advantage of magnification. Personally, I hate scopes with an AO for hunting. You never know what distance your shot will be so you find yourself trying to make adjustments while Bambi casually trots off and you miss your opportunity.
Here's some things to consider for a hunting scope:
Eye relief: The range of distance your eye must be from the lens to get a full view. The more powerful the magnification, the more narrow the eye relief gets. This makes it very difficult to shoulder the gun and find a view in the scope. At 4X you'll have at least 1.5" of eye relief range. This means your eye can be anywhere from 3.5 to 5" from the lens and still get a full view. At 12X, that narrows the range to about a 1/4" sweet spot. Your going to spend valuable time just trying to get your eye to find a view.
Field of view: As magnification increases, your field of view decreases. Field of view is rated by how wide an area can be seen at 100 yards. With a powerful scope, you will have a hard time locating your target because you can't see a large enough area. At closer ranges, all you see is hair and you won't know if you are aiming at the head or ass.
Light transmission: The more powerful the magnification, the less light is transmitted through the scope. To compensate for this, manufacturers use a large objective lens. Though it fixes one problem, it generates several more. The scope will be longer, heavier, and will require higher rings to clear the barrel. Higher rings move the scope farther above bore line so the trajectory doesn't track as well. Additionally, higher rings make the scope more sensitive to recoil and position the scope above normal eye level.
Parallax: With scopes 9X or less, the factory presets the parallax to 100 yards. With scopes 10X and more, parallax won't track so an AO ring is required. Parallax amounts to having the cross hairs in the proper focal plane. The more parallax is off, the more cross hair drift you get. The higher the magnification, the more parallax is affected. Clamp your gun in a vise and position the cross hairs on a target. As you move your eye up/down, left/right, you can actually see the cross hairs move on the target when the gun is totally stationary. When parallax is adjusted properly, you won't see any cross hair drift. If you get cross hair drift because your eye wasn't positioned exactly centered, your groups will drift and give the false indication of poor accuracy. When hunting, you usually don't have time to play with the AO ring to correct parallax.
Wiggle factor: The higher the magnification, the more wiggle you see and the harder it is to hold on target. For me, 4X is about the most I can handle without a rest.
Despite what you may read, a 270 has a max quick kill range of 200-225 yards. Any shot beyond that is iffy at best. No doubt, deer and elk have been killed at considerably longer distances with a 270 but more times than not, you will wound the animal and it will run off and die. Using the standard of 1X per 25 yards, and a range of 225 yards, a 3-9X scope is just about perfect. I always keep my scope on the lowest X setting. If game is spotted at a long distance, you will have plenty of time to adjust the zoom ring. If something jumps up close, you don't have time to find the target in the scope, adjust the AO ring, play with the zoom ring, and take the safety off. You need to be ready for action immediately.
If I had to choose just one gun for all big game hunting needs, it would be a 270 Win. Side-by-side comparisons to other cartridges may favor the other cartridge in a few categories but if you look at the overall picture, the 270 comes out on top. The other non-magnum cartridges with near equal performance are the 6.5X55 Swede, 7X57 Mauser, and the 280 Rem. Yes, you can go to the heavy magnums and get more performance with brute strength but in a standard rifle with a standard cartridge, a 270 is hard to beat.
I don't agree with your scope selection but then it's not my gun. If you hunt a lot, you'll find the higher power scopes have too many disadvantages for the single advantage of magnification. Personally, I hate scopes with an AO for hunting. You never know what distance your shot will be so you find yourself trying to make adjustments while Bambi casually trots off and you miss your opportunity.
Here's some things to consider for a hunting scope:
Eye relief: The range of distance your eye must be from the lens to get a full view. The more powerful the magnification, the more narrow the eye relief gets. This makes it very difficult to shoulder the gun and find a view in the scope. At 4X you'll have at least 1.5" of eye relief range. This means your eye can be anywhere from 3.5 to 5" from the lens and still get a full view. At 12X, that narrows the range to about a 1/4" sweet spot. Your going to spend valuable time just trying to get your eye to find a view.
Field of view: As magnification increases, your field of view decreases. Field of view is rated by how wide an area can be seen at 100 yards. With a powerful scope, you will have a hard time locating your target because you can't see a large enough area. At closer ranges, all you see is hair and you won't know if you are aiming at the head or ass.
Light transmission: The more powerful the magnification, the less light is transmitted through the scope. To compensate for this, manufacturers use a large objective lens. Though it fixes one problem, it generates several more. The scope will be longer, heavier, and will require higher rings to clear the barrel. Higher rings move the scope farther above bore line so the trajectory doesn't track as well. Additionally, higher rings make the scope more sensitive to recoil and position the scope above normal eye level.
Parallax: With scopes 9X or less, the factory presets the parallax to 100 yards. With scopes 10X and more, parallax won't track so an AO ring is required. Parallax amounts to having the cross hairs in the proper focal plane. The more parallax is off, the more cross hair drift you get. The higher the magnification, the more parallax is affected. Clamp your gun in a vise and position the cross hairs on a target. As you move your eye up/down, left/right, you can actually see the cross hairs move on the target when the gun is totally stationary. When parallax is adjusted properly, you won't see any cross hair drift. If you get cross hair drift because your eye wasn't positioned exactly centered, your groups will drift and give the false indication of poor accuracy. When hunting, you usually don't have time to play with the AO ring to correct parallax.
Wiggle factor: The higher the magnification, the more wiggle you see and the harder it is to hold on target. For me, 4X is about the most I can handle without a rest.
Despite what you may read, a 270 has a max quick kill range of 200-225 yards. Any shot beyond that is iffy at best. No doubt, deer and elk have been killed at considerably longer distances with a 270 but more times than not, you will wound the animal and it will run off and die. Using the standard of 1X per 25 yards, and a range of 225 yards, a 3-9X scope is just about perfect. I always keep my scope on the lowest X setting. If game is spotted at a long distance, you will have plenty of time to adjust the zoom ring. If something jumps up close, you don't have time to find the target in the scope, adjust the AO ring, play with the zoom ring, and take the safety off. You need to be ready for action immediately.
+1 to the above.
I've used my 270 to take Rabbits, Coyotes, Javalina, Antelope, White Tail and Mule Deer and Elk. My preference for scopes is either a fixed 4 power or a 2-7X variable set on 3/4. Remember you use a scope to aid shot placement not to look for animals. Binoculars are what to use for glassing for animals not scopes.
RNets, You guys must be "reading" too many Jack O'Conner books.
Mr. .270 Supreme! Just kidding. I too had a favorite Ruger 77 in .270 for many years. Great caliber and flat shootin'. I have hunted with just about 20 or so different calibers and many years ago "settled" on 7mm Mags. I had a Browning Automatic, Winchester Model 70 and now own a Ruger MKII in 7mm Mag. The thing I really like about the 7 Mags is "bedding power" on big game. Deer, Elk, Moose, and Black Bear. Most everything I have shot out to 250 yards, fell "right" where I hit it! Great "flat" shootin' caliber and ammo is available everywhere if you choose not to reload. I finally gave up my reloading bench after 25 years of reloading and shoot only "store" bought stuff now.[8D]........Dick
Nice choice. The 270 is a great round and it's hard to beat a Ruger. I also like the choice of a wood stock, sure the synthetics have their advantages but there is nothing like wood. If I ever retire my old winchester in 25-06 I will replace it with a 270.
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