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To the Right of Reagan
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I started this thread to address one very crucial step in carrying a particular type of handgun: one classified by law as "Any Other Weapon." This topic first originated in a different thread of mine regarding a North America Arms mini revolver. That thread is here: http://rugerforum.net/gunsmithing/69129-naa-mini-what-does-mean-ported.html

This post explains the measures, which must be taken to legally carry a handgun that is housed inside of a wallet holster, with the intention of being able to fire that weapon without first removing it from that holster.

If you were to place a NAA mini revolver or a pistol such as a Ruger 380 into a wallet-type holster from where it can be dispatched without removing it from that holster, that unit is illegal to carry unless the proper paperwork has been filed with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) and a tax of $200 is paid.


Photo: A handgun inside of a wallet holster from where it can be fired without removing it.

I have spent a significant amount of time researching this

The BATFE form that needs to be filled out is the "Application to Make and Register a Firearm" form #5320.1 and available here as an interactive PDF: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf

You can either print out the PDF form and fill it out with a pen, or you can fill it out as a PDF on your computer and then print it out on your printer. As I've mentioned, it's an interactive form. This means that even though it's a PDF that opens in Adobe Reader, you can click on the user fields and type in your information while on screen.

When you are finished filling out this form, place it in an envelope along with a check for $200 and send it through the United States Postal Service (USPS) to:

NFA (National Firearms Act)
Lock Box 530298
1075 Loop Road
Atlanta, Georgia 30337-6002


Upon notification from the BATFE that your application is approved, you may carry your handgun and wallet holster as a single unit and fire it as such. This, of course, is pending you have your CCW permit.
 

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Very interesting, thanks for posting this.
 

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Same as the .22 Cain or walking stick. Or pager look alike Because you can shoot bullets from something that doesn't look like a gun.
 

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Interesting. I would have never thought there would be laws against doing this without registering it. I know someone who cuts out the area around the trigger of the pocket holsters so they can still shoot it if the holster comes out of the pocket with the gun when drawn. He's probably breaking the law from the sounds of it.

Personally, I'm not interested in a holster that has the trigger exposed, kinda defeats the purpose in my mind, but it looks like their purpose is to conceal and keep the gun in the proper position.
 

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Learn somthing new everyday. I guess there are other considerations for carrying a rig like that. Don't want to be like the LEO who fired off a round while reaching in his pocket for change to buy his Auntie Anne's pretzel.
 

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To the Right of Reagan
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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies, guys. I need to get some work done in my shop this afternoon and make up for the time on the phone over this. :)
 

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I think the key for obtaining a legal hassle free "Wallet Holster" is to find one that does not cover the top slide. As long as the slide is visible and can be operated normally it is NOT an AOW and permitted. Furthermore, the bullet does not shoot thru the wallet, since the wallet does not cover the slide or muzzle.

While I was at the NRA Convention in Pittsburgh, these were being sold and it was explained that the gun can have a modified holster, but it can't cover the slide. I believe Desantis also has one very similar to that one.

Concealment Concepts - Pocket Pal Wallet Holster




EDIT - Here is a video of the Desantis holster for the Ruger LCP, and not the slide, trigger and mag release operate normally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG2tAIs8aNE


While some might not prefer to have a pocket gun with the trigger exposed.... I can tell you that these little pocket guns are known to have a long trigger pull for "safety". I have a Keltec P3AT in my back pocket (opposite my wallet) with one in the pipe and have never had it go off. Of course, I don't put ANYTHING else inside the pocket where the gun is, and I have sat on it riding horse or motorcycle, in the car or recliner at home, without any incident. However, it is at the ready... if needed. And if in a holdup situation where I am asked for my wallet.... I reach for the opposite rear pocket of where my wallet is at and grab the gun, in the holster (modified grip) and it's ready to fire when I pull it out.
 

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To the Right of Reagan
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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you for providing the other side to this story, pavtxer. I was more focused on the shoot-through holster, and wasn't aware about having an open slide for making it legal.

I'm contemplating a NAA mini revolver and having it inside of a holster, and I was surprised to find similar holsters for the 380s, both of which completely cover the tops of the firearms.

Again, thanks for the good post and information. It helps in educating.
 

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Here's is the relevent part of the US Code:

(e) Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

Please note the last sentence. I am not a lawyer but the "shall not include" portion would seem to be at odds with what is being discussed.

The PDF references 18 USC 5845 (e) but there does not appear to be such a section. The info above comes from 26 USC 5845 (e).
 

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The above post refers to ATF determinations which technically violate the Constitution's separation of powers and delegation of ALL law, regulation, and rule making to Congress. And Congress is not authorized to delegate authority such as this to the ATF. Maxim: Delegata potestes non potest delegari.
 

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To the Right of Reagan
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Discussion Starter #13
Here's is the relevent part of the US Code:

(e) Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

Please note the last sentence. I am not a lawyer but the "shall not include" portion would seem to be at odds with what is being discussed.

The PDF references 18 USC 5845 (e) but there does not appear to be such a section. The info above comes from 26 USC 5845 (e).

Well, I'm going by what the BATFE explained to me, and below is a link to their website that clearly shows a wallet holster and a firearm just above it. The description next to the image reads: "Wallet Guns -- Note: The Firearm without the specially designed wallet is not a Prohibited Weapon.

Image from BATFE website featuring "Any Other Weapons":



Find the above image at: ATF Online - Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - National Firearms Act Definitions - Any Other Weapon

About two thirds of the way down on your link, just below, you'll come to the wallet holsters. It mentions transferring the holster and paying $5 to do it, but it's free to transfer without the firearm. I don't see where it talks about registering the holster. The BATFE told me on the phone that they need to know, among other things, the serial number of the gun, but they never mentioned anything about registering the holster. How do you register a holster without a serial number?

ATF Online - Firearms - Guides - Identification of Firearms

The text below is from the BATFE website: ATF Online - Contact - Frequently Asked Questions

Q: I want to register my firearm who do I call?
If it is a firearm that does not fall under the National Firearms Act (NFA) description, there is no federal registration. However, there may be state or local requirements and you should contact your state or local agencies. If the firearm is an NFA firearm you must contact:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
99 New York Avenue NE, Mailstop 6E 403
Washington, DC 20226 USA
Voice (304) 616-4500

Some examples of the types of NFA firearms that must be registered are: Machine guns, frames or receivers of machine guns; any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns; any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun; any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person; silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; short-barreled rifles and shotguns; molotov cocktails, anti-tank guns (over caliber .50), bazookas, and mortars.

A few examples of “any other weapon” are: H&R Handyguns, Ithaca auto-burglar guns, cane guns, gadget-type firearms and “pen” guns which fire a projectile by the action of an explosive.
 
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