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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This fits ammo section too.
I recently filed my.45 acp magazines with liberty Civil Defense 78+p+ rounds 1900 fps. I don't look forward to ever having to shoot anyone even a dog but I want the best ammo for defense.
Ordered some for the 10mm Delta Elite. 60 grain bullet at 2400 fps!
The crack and fireball from that ought to be a bit more than the .22TCM,which I can't find a gun for..
The wearing of body armor such as worn by BLM and ANTIFA, who are not currently a concern in our area? and other criminals seem to be mentioned more often in the "news" these days.
Thus the quest for best penetrating and accurate rounds. Sincse Nurse Cratchet (Hillary Clitnon) and Cuz banned AP for handguns in 94 the few remaining ap 9mm pistol bulelts are too precious to practice with.
At $43.00 ish for 20 rounds, for Liberty Civil Defense rounds, practice is rather limited by my pocket too....and are they now the ultimate? What elese is out there? .
 

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I don't understand the super light weight / super high velocity concept ... I do understand the super high price ...Geeze Louise $43.00 for 20 rounds = $2.15 a round !!!
I guess I read too much Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton when growing up ... large caliber (44 or 45) heavy bullet (220 to 250 grains ) and a moderate velocity (900 to 1000 fps) used to kill people and animals fairly well ...
... What happened to make the bad guys and critters so hard to disable ... They get all super human powers ?
Or could it be ...The ammo wasn't costing enough and with a bullet mould you could make your own for dirt cheap ?
Don't believe all the advertising hype you read ... use some common sense and for goodness sake ...don't over think things ... some people will tell lies to take your hard earned money .
Gary
 

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12-gauge buckshot beats body armor.
Source? Citation?

I assume you're referring to the fact that not many people are going to walk off a blast from a 12 gauge rather than suggesting that buckshot is going to penetrate common body armor (it won't).
 

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If you want to see results for self defense ammo in ballistic gel, go to the below site. They tested for a average of five rounds from 380 to 45 ACP according to FBI standards.

 

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I wouldn't want to be hit with a "gimmick."
I don't think anyone wants to be hit with anything, including a SV .22LR. The point being made is that $2 bullets probably aren't that much more effective than standard bullets. Ever wonder why there is a "standard" weight for most calibers? It's usually because the round in question was developed for a specific purpose and engineered to meet that purpose efficiently. 45ACP was not designed to be a 100 yard round. It was designed to inflict as much of the rounds energy as possible to the target at close ranges.

If you are trying to meet a different need, you would be better off finding a platform and caliber to meet that need. An AR pistol perhaps?
 

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I carry Liberty Civil Defense .38 spec. in my 642 EDC .... If you don't understand the whole fast, light bullet thing I suggest you go find the videos .... you'll get it. The .38s run 1500 fps from a 2" barrel. Accurate, low recoil but a little loud. Glad I stocked up well at the pre-2020 prices.

In one vid it's pretty funny as the test shooter is shocked by the results of the LCD rounds as they blow big holes in Level 3 body armor .... might as well have been cardboard.

Oh ... and they're rated +P not +P+.
 

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I have some of the more fancy bullets in a gun or two. First couple of rounds in a 9mm are Speer 115gr hp +p+. Night stand gun has 45 acp 185gr hp +p. A lot of the time when I carry a 1911 it is stuffed with 230gr ball ammo. Figure 110+ years of stopping fights can't be all wrong. Nothing wrong with buying good defense ammo. I have some federal punch laying around in 45 acp. I carry some 115gr hp 9mm, just plain hp. Like rammerjammer said a lot of this stuff is just a gimmick. We all want to be prepared, we all want to be vigilant but the likely hood of any of us having to use a firearm in self defense is pretty small. So spending tons of money on fancy bullets doesn't make a lot of sense. Buy hollow points if you can find them and you will be good. My 2 cents
 

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I'll carry on with my old fashioned 158 gr semi jacketed hollow point out of my 3" SP101. .357 magnum at 1200 fps.
If that doesn't do then 240gr swc in 44 mag. at 1400 fps will do.
There's good reason some of us are shooting old 1911s with 200 or 230 gr ball. It works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I shoot them for practice, because I can or could afford them! Any bullet will kill...but there is no such thing as too much killing a don't want the perp to suffer...or do I...huum!
Something that one shot center mass takes them to the undertaker is the idea. I practiced shooting double tap and shooting the cojones off..on targets that is. But..I am now a few/several years older and need practice. a hundred rounds a week would not be too much.
 

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Do your guns have adjustable sights that you zero for those ultra lightweight/ superfast bullets? What range are you shooting at? Are they accurate at 7 yards? How about 15 or 25 yds? I shoot the bullet weight that shoots to the sights of my fixed sight handguns. That means 124gr 9mm, 158gr .357mag, and 200gr .45acp. Having POi match POA are important to me. I also want to be able to place shots accurately at greater than ten yards if using anything other than my pocket pistol. I haven't tried light bullets since experimenting with Glaser Safety Slugs in the 1980's. Those .44spl loads didn't shoot anywhere near where the sights were looking past 5yd and I have never tried the pricey "novelty loads" since.
 

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12 ga is 100% effective only in internet lore. In house defense any shotgun load depends on barrel. Most barrels across a room there will be one wound. It still has to be aimed on target.
For a long gun defense I'll defer to Massad Ayoob's evidence of the effect of varmint loads in an M4 style AR.
 

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Do your guns have adjustable sights that you zero for those ultra lightweight/ superfast bullets? What range are you shooting at? Are they accurate at 7 yards? How about 15 or 25 yds? I shoot the bullet weight that shoots to the sights of my fixed sight handguns. That means 124gr 9mm, 158gr .357mag, and 200gr .45acp. Having POi match POA are important to me. I also want to be able to place shots accurately at greater than ten yards if using anything other than my pocket pistol. I haven't tried light bullets since experimenting with Glaser Safety Slugs in the 1980's. Those .44spl loads didn't shoot anywhere near where the sights were looking past 5yd and I have never tried the pricey "novelty loads" since.
My 642 doesn't have adjustable sights but shoots the 50 grn Liberty ammo to POA at defensive distances pretty well. I can stay in the headbox of an IPSC target at 10 yrd using the fixed sights and the A ring using no sights at all , just shooting instinctive ... "point and shoot". I can stay in the center mass out to 20 yrd with sights. At some point the distance is no longer self defense ... we're not talking about cowboy movies here.

But I do agree you should stay within your skill level with the gun and ammo you choose to carry. The light weight of the 50 grn bullets in an Airweight revolver make for a great carry package that is accurate, plenty powerful and so easy to carry around all day. I think I'll stick with it another six years ...so far so good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I thought this would be friendly and constructive. The ultimate load is a .50 cal BMG with no recoil in a six inch barrel wheel gun. Don't know how to get there.
My High Power with fixed sights.aim for heart and shoot off the twins. So I point/ instinct shoot or did. Been a while. Takes real concentration if not practiced regularly.
My concern was penetration with al lt the bad guys and terrorists now around but ..not so much here. Ideal situation neverhave to sue your gun...but one time cudl mean our life or death and my crystal ball may not be working. Any 9mm round, any .22 round will kil a person or a bear but shot placement s the thing and requalifying every four or five weeks, is not required of Civilians, not of late afforadble for me. So thereal latest and greatest vs gimmics s the ideal. If someone develops a 3000 fps 30-40-0r 90 grain bullet I'll buy it. The .22Tcm should ahve been developed in a 10mm case, is my thoughts is indicative of my thoughts. Would be hell on practice barrels unless steelite or heavy chrome plating and onw real impressive fireball and boom the kind that would untie your boot laces and catch them on fire. Give me speed, give me speed, lots of speed, under the silvery moon and hard bullet requiring wrist exercises..can finish the tune.just yet.
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