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Civilian CCW-If you were in a Assualt-how many rounds fired?

  • 4 rounds fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5 rds fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6 rounds fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 7 rounds fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 8-9 rounds fired.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 10 or more rounds fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
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Had a road rage incident whereby the guy came up to my vehicle at a stop light and was hitting my window with the heel of his hand. I pulled the Charter 38 out and set it on the seat. He went back to his vehicle yelling what are you going to do shoot me. That was in the 1980's.
 

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I’d be interested in knowing of the folks who did shoot, if they are private citizens, LE or private security. Maybe they will post it.

I have a friend who was forced to shoot when someone boarded his boat in the middle of the night. Unfortunately the intruder didn’t make it out alive.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I’d be interested in knowing of the folks who did shoot, if they are private citizens, LE or private security. Maybe they will post it.

I have a friend who was forced to shoot when someone boarded his boat in the middle of the night. Unfortunately the intruder didn’t make it out alive.
Please no LE or security Guard etc. Post. Only civilian EDC/CCW assaults. Other wise it will skew up the results. We can have another poll later for Police etc in the line of duty.
Thanks
 

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I was in my store's warehouse with two police officers. The warehouse had been broken into. I was there because the police wanted someone familiar with the layout. The police chased the man out and he was comming my way. He was over 100 feet away. I was behind a thick stack of oak furniture. I fired into a stack of furniture to his right. The stack of wood furniture was 4 feet thick. And it had a wall of cushions so it was a safe shot. The man dropped his weapon and was taken into custody. Warning shot s are generally a bad idea but in this case it worked.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Had a road rage incident whereby the guy came up to my vehicle at a stop light and was hitting my window with the heel of his hand. I pulled the Charter 38 out and set it on the seat. He went back to his vehicle yelling what are you going to do shoot me. That was in the 1980's.
My wife had a similar incident. Crazy nut kept hitting the window, just out of control. She does not carry. Fortunately, police were notified and the nut arrested.
 

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My wife had a similar incident. Crazy nut kept hitting the window, just out of control. She does not carry. Fortunately, police were notified and the nut arrested.
When the light turned I drove off and he backed way off and turned shortly. I never heard anything further about it.
 

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Had a road rage incident whereby the guy came up to my vehicle at a stop light and was hitting my window with the heel of his hand. I pulled the Charter 38 out and set it on the seat. He went back to his vehicle yelling what are you going to do shoot me. That was in the 1980's.
I keep my doors unlocked for just such an incident.
 

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I don't mean to put this thread too far off track as I've never fired my EDC during an assault, however I was assaulted earlier this year while carrying my EDC and did not use it. So I suppose my round count was zero.

Earlier this year I wasn't physically attacked but long story short, I had a run in with random druggies in the neighborhood who used some very harsh language while repeatedly threatening to kill me and asking for a fight while following me down the sidewalk.

Putting out a stiff arm with pepper spray in hand while yelling something along the lines of, "Back up, get back, you don't want trouble with me. GET BACK" and retreating was enough for the lead jerk to reconsider his hostile intent.

Don't get me wrong, I was prepared to make a quick draw for my pistol. If they had advanced just a few feet closer or acted just a bit more hostile they would have gotten a nice spray of taco sauce in their eyes followed by an even spicier taste of hot lead heartburn, if necessary.

I was probably 100% justified in smoking all of them, but the best gunfight is the one you avoid. Plus, with 4 possible assailants (who were probably on meth) my little .380 with 7 rounds seemed awfully insufficient for the job at hand.

I called local LE and they even assigned a detective to the case, but they weren't willing to prosecute based on my testimony alone. Lucky for me, the lead perp was arrested literally a week or so later for an unrelated assault that progressed to domestic battery and the whole group were evicted from the neighborhood.

There was a similar situation I was in closer to a decade ago. I was followed by and then surrounded by some hoodlums in a shockingly young age range. One of them took a swing at me which I (mostly) avoided. Rather than using violence to teach these kids a lesson, I shouted, "FIRE, help, theres a FIRE. FIRE, HELP" ETC ETC and the little punks ran off scared as could be.

My experience is that yelling a lot is one of the best things you can do to protect yourself. No one wants a scene (usually).
 

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I don't mean to put this thread too far off track as I've never fired my EDC during an assault, however I was assaulted earlier this year while carrying my EDC and did not use it. So I suppose my round count was zero.



Earlier this year I wasn't physically attacked but long story short, I had a run in with random druggies in the neighborhood who used some very harsh language while repeatedly threatening to kill me and asking for a fight while following me down the sidewalk.



Putting out a stiff arm with pepper spray in hand while yelling something along the lines of, "Back up, get back, you don't want trouble with me. GET BACK" and retreating was enough for the lead jerk to reconsider his hostile intent.



Don't get me wrong, I was prepared to make a quick draw for my pistol. If they had advanced just a few feet closer or acted just a bit more hostile they would have gotten a nice spray of taco sauce in their eyes followed by an even spicier taste of hot lead heartburn, if necessary.



I was probably 100% justified in smoking all of them, but the best gunfight is the one you avoid. Plus, with 4 possible assailants (who were probably on meth) my little .380 with 7 rounds seemed awfully insufficient for the job at hand.



I called local LE and they even assigned a detective to the case, but they weren't willing to prosecute based on my testimony alone. Lucky for me, the lead perp was arrested literally a week or so later for an unrelated assault that progressed to domestic battery and the whole group were evicted from the neighborhood.



There was a similar situation I was in closer to a decade ago. I was followed by and then surrounded by some hoodlums in a shockingly young age range. One of them took a swing at me which I (mostly) avoided. Rather than using violence to teach these kids a lesson, I shouted, "FIRE, help, theres a FIRE. FIRE, HELP" ETC ETC and the little punks ran off scared as could be.



My experience is that yelling a lot is one of the best things you can do to protect yourself. No one wants a scene (usually).
I can't tell you enough how absolutely brilliant your reactions were. You avoided major legal problems both criminal and civil. You walked away unscathed physically and mentally. Congratulations again, you showed the best shooting is the one that did not happen.

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I called local LE and they even assigned a detective to the case, but they weren't willing to prosecute based on my testimony alone.
Based on this statement you probably wouldn’t have been 100% justified if you “smoked “ them.
You saved yourself possible criminal prosecution and civil liability. Criminal prosecution is a crap shoot at best, but civil has a much lower bar. Either one can break your bank.
 

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Based on this statement you probably wouldn’t have been 100% justified if you “smoked “ them.
You saved yourself possible criminal prosecution and civil liability. Criminal prosecution is a crap shoot at best, but civil has a much lower bar. Either one can break your bank.
I think you're entirely unqualified to make any judgements at all based on the very limited information I gave... and completely incorrect on your assumption that because law enforcement wouldn't prosecute a case (due to lack of evidence) that no crime occurred.

The detective's words to me were along the lines of, "I 100% believe you that this happened the way you said it did, but while there are witnesses to a ruckus in the streets, they can't corroborate the finer details of your story and you don't have any physical injuries. The local DA and his assistants won't be able to prosecute a case like that. Let me know if you can find anyone else who witnessed the assault and is willing to testify".

FACT: Multiple individuals vocalizing intent to KILL you while pursuing you down the street while you attempt to flee is a scenario that very plausibly warrants deadly force.
 

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Before we all get upset about our individual opinions on what would or might have happened. I will say what I always say in these type of discussions.

Hippo, since you were able to get out of both situations without using a firearm you were NOT justified in using a firearm from a morality stance. I don't care if the law says you could. Deadly force should always be a last resort.

Mark, If Hippo HAD feared for his life and thought there was no other option, he WOULD have been justified whether there is evidence of a crime or not, and again I don't care what the legal implications are. In this case, deadly force was neither required, nor used, so all is well.

We need to stop thinking about when we will be legally justified, and think of when you are morally obligated to use any level of force to protect ourselves and others. When morality is determined by rule of law, we are doomed as a country and a society.
 

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Angry Hippo, first I’m on you’re side, you did the thing and yes I’m not qualified That was my opinion.

Agreed, just because there’s no evidence a crime happened doesn’t mean a crime wasn’t committed. Had you shot these individuals what you stated in your second paragraph would/could be used against you if you were put on trial .....no “provable”crime on their part, no witnesses, no injuries to you.

My neighbor is a retired trial lawyer. He once told my a trail isn’t about guilt or innocence, that it’s more about which attorney can twist the facts in their favor. Then he said to me, “ You don’t really think OJ is innocent, do you?”

Again I’m not trying to argue with you, you did the right thing. You saved yourself the trouble of going down a road full of “unknowns”.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I was just in a conversation with a family member the other night. My Liberal Sister, wanted to go pickup my Brother coming into town at the local train station. I was upset, NO, I will go and get him. It is a bad part of town, it is night. She has the most naive thing about her, that predators do not exist. Darkness hides a lot of evil.
And the interesting thing is the fact that, from every CCW owner that I know, do MORE to find ways to not go into danger. Look for ways to avoid it, not get in a confrontation, use Situational awareness more than all the folks that are anti-guns.
 

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Just for some clarification, what I mean when I say I felt I would have been 100% justified in smoking them what I was trying to convey was...

I was scared. Very scared. These were some very rough looking people who I had no relation to and had never seen prior to this day. They called me very foul things and used racially charged language. Repeatedly threatened my life and were very eager to inflict physical violence upon me.

I tried to just walk away and leave the situation but they were FOLLOWING me.

I'm a tough guy when I need to be, but truth is I was scared, I was very scared. They said they meant to do great harm on me and I believed they sincerely meant it, without any reservation. I felt it was very possible or even almost certain, that without taking significant evasive/defensive action I was going to be subject to severe injury or even death.

In fact the only reason they stopped their aggression was because I pulled out a weapon/self defense tool. It was a less-lethal/non-lethal weapon, but still a weapon. Without threat of some level of force, things were going south and quickly.

And to be honest, when I pulled out the pepper spray I had significant doubts about whether it was the right course of action - but it's what I chose at that moment and lady luck was on my side.

So when I say that I felt 100% justified in smoking them It's based on a few factors.

1. Disparity of force.
1a. Multiple assailants
1b. assailants are younger and more physically fit
1c. poster suffers physical disability and cannot reasonably throw a punch with his left hand

2. Clear and vocalized threat
2a. assailants said were going to hurt me, kill me - repeatedly
2b. assailants body language indicated pre-fight indicators like clenched fists, fighting stance, puffed chest etc
2c. assailants appeared to be under the influence

3. Attempted to flee
3a attempted to move away
3b vocalized desire to avoid conflict
3c did not purposely escalate the situation at any time

4. Sincere belief of imminent severe injury or death

And undoubtedly a few more that don't immediately come to mind.

And where I live these days, if you can convince a LEO/DA/Jury of those factors then you are going to be 100% justified. Several posters have mentioned that our legal system is more like a lottery than a true arbiter of the truth... and that is certainly a worthwhile consideration.

As far as the morality of things go... I don't believe in doing harm to anyone if I can help it, but my belief system would have allowed me to be at peace if I had pulled out the gun instead of the pepper spray. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I was more than willing to give these guys every chance to go on peaceably, and that's what happened... but had they pushed things just a bit further... or had I responded just a bit differently... or if it was a Tuesday instead of a Thursday... etc etc.... they would have left me with zero other options.
 

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Let us address the question of morality. This is a hypothetical situation.

I am a very accomplished CQ Combat and defense firearms trained shooter. I am in a crowded mall with my wife. All of a sudden there appears an active shooter. I now have a few choices. 1- run with my wife to safety ignoring everything and everyone else. 2- run to safety with my wife and try to get other people to safety. 3- send my wife to what I believe is the best way to safety while I look for the right opportunity to take on the active shooter. 4- slight variations of these.

What am I going to do?
Easy answer for me, since I am ordinary everyday person with out color of law on my side, I am taking my wife to safety and ignoring everything and everyone else. My mission in life is to get me and if with family home safe and unharmed.

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Let us address the question of morality. This is a hypothetical situation.
.....
What am I going to do?
Easy answer for me, since I am ordinary everyday person with out color of law on my side, I am taking my wife to safety and ignoring everything and everyone else. My mission in life is to get me and if with family home safe and unharmed.
I won't say this is the wrong course of action (it's extremely prudent, actually) but let me ask you this. How would you feel if numerous people died inside that shopping mall and in an after action review it was found you plausibly had an opportunity to stop it, but instead took yourself and wife to safety?

One answer... is "I'd feel bad, but not nearly as bad as if I got killed by the perp, a responding LEO, or another well meaning CCWer and left my wife/children without my support"
 

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I won't say this is the wrong course of action (it's extremely prudent, actually) but let me ask you this. How would you feel if numerous people died inside that shopping mall and in an after action review it was found you plausibly had an opportunity to stop it, but instead took yourself and wife to safety?



One answer... is "I'd feel bad, but not nearly as bad as if I got killed by the perp, a responding LEO, or another well meaning CCWer and left my wife/children without my support"
You hit the nail on the head

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