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With all due respect.....Kel-Tec and Diamondbacks and such...are all junk and should not be compared to "Tier-1" gunmakers like Ruger, Glock, S&W, Sig, Colt, Walther, H&K, etc.

If lives depend on a gun, we won't reach for Taurus, Kel-Tec, and such ilk.

Like I said, in the past (and assuming for the moment we're talking Glocks, as the model distinction here serves as a good example), people needed to make a hard choice.....do I want a small and concealable piece, but sacrifice rounds with only 6-8 rds available (model 43)....or .....do I sacrifice concealability to chase after more round-count (model 26), but the gun then doesn't conceal as well?. Decisions, decisions.

There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that if people can be given the best of these 2 choices.....without having to MAKE a compromise choice one-way or the other....you've got a game-changer on your hands that competiting manufacturers cannot ignore.

Sig is a good manufacturer but their stateside glitches of late are a (hopefully) temporary problem they can work out. My point is that as it pertains to Ruger, if the LC9s series is discontinued, my hope is that they see the future as pioneered by Sig's P365, and bring out a 17 oz, LC9-size gun, under 4.3" in height, that hold 10 rds....and do it without the QC drama of the early run of P365 guns. If they don't, and simply "update" the LC9s....then I hope they use a lever-style takedown without having to remove pins, and that they offer 2 mags like everyone else.
 

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Whether or not one trusts a kel-tec is really up to them and for some it may be all they can afford

my point was a small double stack 9 isn’t new, what gets all the attention is the Sig name. the question continues to be is this old Sig quality or a dressed up kel-tec.


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Petergunn..... your point wasn't lost... I agree there were "others" who previously (prior to P365)...made slim, high capacity carry guns. The point I was stressing was to address the few comments made that people thought the P365 was a passing fad...how they couldn't understand all the hoopla...and then bringing up how "others" had done the same earlier, etc, etc. as support for that position.

The point I was trying to bring out was twofold--->

1.) what is new here is that a tier-1, top-brand was doing this instead of a bottom-drawer maker as before, and....

2.) To suggest don't think for a minute this is a passing fad. Once a top-brand maker like Sig stepped into the fray making a 10 rd gun that is no larger and weighs no more than the typical 6-7 rd carry 9mm.....then this changes the landscape. My point and my prediction is that this goes beyond a passing fad and all the "major" manufacturers will likely follow-suit in new designs being offered in the future. Ask yourself....all else being equal....would to purposely choose a 6-7 rd gun when the overall package size and weight is the same...but can carry 10-11 rds? The big deal here is that Sig is pioneering this among the top brands and others will likely follow suit to stay competitive.

Now....if we wish to talk P365 history and specifics....sure, Sig stubbed their toes a number of times lately, ( the P320 safe-drop problem, and now P365 with brittle firing pins, barrel peening, failure-to-go-into battery, etc, etc).....one can rightfully ask "Is Sig losing it?". Maybe this is the case with Sig,...or mybe only SIG-USA..... or maybe it's what often happens with new designs of many brand names, some teething issues that will be worked out within the first year of production.

For me, I think the LC9S has class-leading trigger quality, and I would be sad to see it go (if true). Don't know if Ruger is working up a new version of the LC9S, or if it will make a P365 clone next.....time will tell.

Cheers.

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I have both a LC9s and a Sig P365 so my perspective is based on ownership.

I paid close to $400 for my LC9s several years ago, bought a few mags for it etc. I've been very pleased with it and it has been carried alot.

I have fired just a hair under 2400 rounds thru the LC9s with zero issues (other than my thumb interfering with the slide stop...which I have done with the new Sig).

I love the trigger on the LC9s. Its very smooth and I've measured it to be about 4.5 lbs.
The LC9s grip isn't all that great so I ended up putting the Hogue Handall rubber grip on it so it is easier to grip on a hot humid day.

I was able to get a NIB Sig about 3 weeks ago from a neighbor who bought two. His wife had a difficult time racking the slide so he sold it to me for an extremely low price (cuz I helped him out around his place (never expected to be paid anything). I had fired his P365 and knew that it would be my next purchase.

I shoot both pistols equally well.

While some are still paying close to list price for the Sig, many claim to be buying them for $475 or so. Considering that the Sig comes with two mags and night sights, that price is way better than what I paid for a LC9s which had been out on the market for almost two years when I bought one.

I have 4 Ruger pistols. I like them (well maybe not my original LCP that much). But the quality of the Sig is just better. Sig did an amazing job on the integrated Fire control unit, remove one pin and it comes out. The way it's designed, the mechanisms are shielded from much of the gunpowder residue so cleaning is a breeze.

While my Sig trigger measures 5.75 to 6.2 lbs, it is very, very smooth. I expect in another 500 rounds it will be about 5.5 lbs. I'd like it a bit less but I can live with it, it has no hard pulls or funny gritty areas that affect accuracy.

Are there problems with the P365? The Sig mag followers are very, very soft. There were noticeable dents in the mags from being loaded for a few days even before I was able to fire it. A change in plastic material fixes that. There have been a few other issues reported with the Sig like recoil/battery issues which were fixed early on. Some strikers broke which seems to be related to the MIM process and looks to be narrowed to some specific build dates and there is already an aftermarket striker available. The night sights were upgraded cuz the original ones were too fragile. There was some peening (look at the peening on SR series..mine had that and it stopped after a few hundred rounds.)

Did the LC9s have any issues? Some had feeding problems and Ruger polished the ramp. Many had sights that moved and they were pinned. There was the big issue with US mags vs Italian made mags. Some mags wouldn't seat, others were hard to release. There were broken recoil springs and a few other issues.

Very, very few firearms in the price range are perfect. At this point neither the LC9s nor the Sig P365 seem to have a perfect record.

Now as to will the P365 "kill" the LC9s?

That's gonna be hard to say. There will be a lot of people who the "apparent" price difference will be a issue. However, when a person adds the same features to an LC9s that come standard on the Sig (Night sights installed worth $125? and a second mag $40?) the price is almost the same.

In either case Sig wins with the the added capacity, better standard grip and an accessory rail. (yes I know it is a proprietary size.)

The reality is that the Ruger LC9s isn't the only firearm who's sales will be affected.

There are a lot of others in the same boat including the G43, PPS M2 and CCP, Shield 9s, XDs 9, Kahr CM & CW models, Nano and even the double stack Keltec. I've fired them all and the Sig handles better, IMO.

Here's my LC9s and P365. The Sig has the 10 round mag installed.

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lc9s pro

Hi everybody! I'm an old guy living in the Mississippi Delta.

Two weeks ago I called my local Sportsman dealer, told him I wanted the new-ish lc9s pro,

and it was delivered the dealer in two days time.

The total cost was $290.00 + tax & background check charge (I'm assuming).

The lc9s-pro lost the outside safety, and the magazine disconnect, so they did listen to the criticisms.

I love my Glock 19 gen 3, but wanted a carry gun that was a little more concealable.

I have to say, I love the look and feel of the lc9s pro, and for a EDC gun, it's great.

I love shooting it, so I went ahead and bought 3 extra mags for it.

I also love my new Ruger AR15 (.556), shooting it is quite good...a little snappy, but wth, it's a conceal carry pistol.

I have a Mark 1v 22/45 Plus a Ruger 10/22, which is a bugger to find large-capacity mags for, but love shooting it.

Will they discontinue the Lc9s pro? Changes- gotta live with them, but I've got mine :)
 

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Ok, I see no way to edit my comments, and I screwed up somehow, so the "...a little snappy, but wth, it's a conceal carry pistol." was meant for the Lc9s pro. Sorry about that.
 

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Sooner or later the current LC9 will get a make over. Just like the LCP did. I'm almost willing to bet the new version will look like a scaled up LCP II. As far as Ruger being forced to make a gun to compete with the Sig P365 I think their future subcompact Security 9 handgun will get close. If not maybe Ruger should come out with a " Security 365 " model.
 

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Just got a LC9S Pro

It's not so easy to find a LC9S Pro new anymore. I found one online and bought it. Cost me $330. I feel I over paid for it, but I wanted it. I could have found one used for $250, but I don't like buying used guns. You never know how many thousands of rounds went through one. So I get my pistol and guess what ? It's defective. The magazine release gets stuck and you have to play with it to release the magazine. I had not even fired it. Makes me think that it got passed over by many due to this, and because I didn't get to see it until after I bought it, it was my problem. Probably why it was still available. Ruger was pretty nice about it, sending me a Fedex person to pick it up and send it back. It took about 2 weeks. The repair note stated that they replaced the release spring. My question to them was how could they have sent this out from the factory like this ? What kind of quality control do they have ? And they noted that they shot the pistol 21 times to test it. And guess what ? They never cleaned it after they fired it. That was not right. After not having the pistol for 2 weeks and having to be home all day for 2 days to sign for the pistol, now I had to start cleaning it. But I do love the pistol.
 

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I have sent pistols back to several manufacturers and none of them were cleaned before they were sent back. In fact, I asked Sig if I should clean my pistol before I sent it to them and they said no.
 
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