[Rivers2k]

My Fathers fiancé is 65 she likes to hike and has a cabin in the mountains of Vermont. She does not shoot recreationally but has no problem with guns. Recently in the woods not far from her “town” a hunter was attacked by 5 coyotes. He wound up in the hospital but killed two of them in the fight. The next week the remaining 3 attacked another hunter he wound up in the hospital and couldn't kill any because they were on him to quickly. Things things are not afraid of people at all.

She is a little nervous and she liked the idea of how I hike with my 686. I brought her out for some shooting. I started her off with my 686 loaded with .38’s and couldn't get her on paper at 10 yards. So I set her up with my sp101 .22lr still couldn't get her on paper. (I have to insert I don’t know her very well and didn’t feel comfortable instructing her the way I normally do with a more hands on approach.)

I told her she should at least sling a 10/22 when she goes in the woods until we can get her some more range time. But she doesn’t want to carry a rifle to cumbersome. She doesn’t seem very strong to me and a little fragile. What would your recommendations be for her to carry in the woods?

My first thought is Taurus Judge loaded with .410’s and a crimson trace grip. That way she doesn’t have to worry about aim as much and shot shells would be easier to hit with. But I have never been a fan of the judge.

Second thought is Bond Arms Derringer with .410’s its only two shots but given the size she is more likely to carry it. I have never shot one of these so I don’t know what they are like.

Third thought is talk her into carrying the 10/22

Fourth is get her a .357 revolver and tell her to practice.

I don't know what to recommend to someone who isn't a very good shot and wont carry a rifle. If I go hiking in her area I would add a shotgun to my normal .357 carry.

This is not a hypothetical situation, remember she is older and doesn't spend time at the range, any suggestions?

 

[heymatthew]

Would it be possible to get your father out at the range with her? Perhaps he could spend a little more "hands on" time with her and get her more comfortable with aiming.

As far as a gun is concerned, I think the Taurus Judge or S&W Governor with even 410 Target Loads would be better than a .22LR pistol if she's that bad at aiming. At least with the 410, she'd have some chance of hitting them if she's in the general vicinity with her shot. The noise alone would probably scare them off, but it's unlikely given their apparent disregard for any dangers associated with humans.

A 10/22 isn't going to help her, I don't think. She doesn't want to carry it and she couldn't hit with a 22 revolver so I'm not sure she'd be able to successfully unstrap a 10/22 from her shoulder, pull it up, aim and fire in enough time and with enough accuracy to save her from a coyote attack. The Judge and Governor pistols are designed for close-quarters combat in a hurry, thus the 410 shot shell. You don't have to be so accurate with it, so this would be good for her. Think, she's older, a little fragile and not very good with guns. She's not going to be able to manipulate a weapon as quickly as you or I.

Get your dad to help her, if he can. Or work your way up to a more hands-on approach with her and try to be patient with her. The 410 might scare her at first, but in the end, it's a viable solution.

 

[anita]

some pepper spray might be the best thing until proper training can applied.
animals don;t have pity or remorse.
pack animals are even more of a threat.
don;t quit on her, keep her shooting may save her skin.

 

[mhuxtable]

If she can't get a 22 on paper at 10 yards something is seriously wrong with her grip and stance....a Judge with 410 won't be any easier for her to shoot or be any more accurate.

She needs some range time with dad with some proper training on stance, grip, sighting and trigger pulling.

Until then, some bear mace should do the trick.

 

[jaxrider14]

I agree that the quickest answer is some bear mace, at least for starters.

Being unfamiliar with firearms, in a stressful situation she might not be able to handle a Judge or Governor handgun well enough to get off a shot in time to do any good.

With training, maybe a gun would be a good idea. Too bad she doesn't want to carry a long gun. A lightweight 410 shotgun might be good for her.

 

[Rivers2k]

If she can't get a 22 on paper at 10 yards something is seriously wrong with her grip and stance....a Judge with 410 won't be any easier for her to shoot or be any more accurate.

She needs some range time with dad with some proper training on stance, grip, sighting and trigger pulling.

Until then, some bear mace should do the trick.

It is most defiantly stance and grip she kind of leans to her right and brings her arms in. I kept correcting her but she kept going back to that Awkward stance.


Bear mace/ spray! I think that might be a good idea, I never thought of that.

Dad isn't much of a shooter either. I am just now getting him into it, he just got a Kimber1911, and he is loving shooting my stuff. He used to do allot of long gun hunting but was more into the hunting than the guns.

 

[Rivers2k]

A lightweight 410 shotgun might be good for her.

I agree I would love to find a .410 shotgun for myself. Does anyone still make them in anything other than single shot? I would love to find a .410 over under or pump or even lever?

 

[North country gal]

That's a tough one.

My first impression is that unless she is willing to make a committment to practice and learn how to shoot a revolver, or any pistol, for that matter, she should leave the gun at home. She should understand this up front. A person that carries a pistol and doesn't know the basics of handling is a danger to themselves and others. Moreover, no one achieves any proficiency with a revolver or pistol without plenty of practice. This is a big step for some of us gals, since a lot of us were unfortunately raised to think that shooting is a guy thing. Thank heavens I escaped that.

If she can't make the committment, fine. I can understand that. In that case, maybe she should carry pepper spray or explore some other options, say, hiking with someone who is comfortable carrying.

I'm leaning to the 410 approach, too, but those guns are on the large side by necessity of chambering a 410. Will she carry such a gun or will she be tempted to leave it back home because of the size? I'd also feel a lot more comfortable with buckshot or at least 4 in birdshot, rather than target loads. There are now some 410 #4 buckshot loads that will make short work of coyotes. The recoil on these loads could be an issue for her, though.

 

[bwinters]

I agree bear mace is the way to go.

 

[RockDoctor]

You might work with her dry firing the 686 to diagnose and correct grip and trigger pull. The trigger pull on most Smiths are fairly smooth; but if her hand strength is comparatively weak have her try using her weak hand index finger on top of her strong hand index finger. Make sure she has the correct sight picture. Body leaning forward to absorb recoil.

Reinforce proper sight alignment and trigger control.

 

[North country gal]

I agree I would love to find a .410 shotgun for myself. Does anyone still make them in anything other than single shot? I would love to find a .410 over under or pump or even lever?

You can still find some 410 pumps in the used market. Still some old Savage 67s around in 410 at a good price. Mossberg still makes 410 pumps in a variety of configurations.

 

[heymatthew]

That's a tough one.

My first impression is that unless she is willing to make a committment to practice and learn how to shoot a revolver, or any pistol, for that matter, she should leave the gun at home. She should understand this up front. A person that carries a pistol and doesn't know the basics of handling is a danger to themselves and others. Moreover, no one achieves any proficiency with a revolver or pistol without plenty of practice. This is a big step for some of us gals, since a lot of us were unfortunately raised to think that shooting is a guy thing. Thank heavens I escaped that.

If she can't make the committment, fine. I can understand that. In that case, maybe she should carry pepper spray or explore some other options, say, hiking with someone who is comfortable carrying.

I'm leaning to the 410 approach, too, but those guns are on the large side by necessity of chambering a 410. Will she carry such a gun or will she be tempted to leave it back home because of the size? I'd also feel a lot more comfortable with buckshot or at least 4 in birdshot, rather than target loads. There are now some 410 #4 buckshot loads that will make short work of coyotes. The recoil on these loads could be an issue for her, though.

This is great advice.

Don't get me wrong. In my response, I failed to make it clear that she needs lots of practice. Lots of training. And lots of hands-on time to get herself comfortable with her firearm and firearms in general. That's the first, and most important thing. The gun selection will come next.

I do think some form of shot shells would be good though as they require a little less pin-point accuracy which she might struggle with. You don't want her to be discouraged by poor accuracy and doubt herself in a bad situation. Stick with the shot shell idea and work from there.

But train her and teach her the basics.

 

[Rivers2k]

That's a tough one.

My first impression is that unless she is willing to make a committment to practice and learn how to shoot a revolver, or any pistol, for that matter, she should leave the gun at home. She should understand this up front. A person that carries a pistol and doesn't know the basics of handling is a danger to themselves and others. Moreover, no one achieves any proficiency with a revolver or pistol without plenty of practice. This is a big step for some of us gals, since a lot of us were unfortunately raised to think that shooting is a guy thing. Thank heavens I escaped that.

If she can't make the committment, fine. I can understand that. In that case, maybe she should carry pepper spray or explore some other options, say, hiking with someone who is comfortable carrying.

I'm leaning to the 410 approach, too, but those guns are on the large side by necessity of chambering a 410. Will she carry such a gun or will she be tempted to leave it back home because of the size? I'd also feel a lot more comfortable with buckshot or at least 4 in birdshot, rather than target loads. There are now some 410 #4 buckshot loads that will make short work of coyotes. The recoil on these loads could be an issue for her, though.

She is willing to learn, I think. I just am not sure what to do until she learns how to shoot. I hope I can get her to do more range time. I don't know if the judge will be to big for her or not probably have to get her to LGS and find out.

 

[North country gal]

She is willing to learn, I think. I just am not sure what to do until she learns how to shoot. I hope I can get her to do more range time. I don't know if the judge will be to big for her or not probably have to get her to LGS and find out.

You're a good guy, by the way, to help her out like this. Glad you're there for her. Let us know how things progress.

 

[jaxrider14]

I agree I would love to find a .410 shotgun for myself. Does anyone still make them in anything other than single shot? I would love to find a .410 over under or pump or even lever?

There are new 410 shotguns available.
For example, Mossberg makes a pump that holds 4 + 1.

Mossberg® 500 .410 Gauge w/24" Barrel Shotgun | Bass Pro Shops

I'm fortunate to have my grandfathers Savage bolt action 410.

 

[Rivers2k]

You're a good guy, by the way, to help her out like this. Glad you're there for her. Let us know how things progress.

Thanks, I will let you all know.

I think I will take the following steps;

1. Recommend the bear spray.

2. Spend time teaching her with the .22 revolver and rifle (to learn basic shooting).

3. Then when she is confident get her a Judge or governor if she will agree to carry it.


Practicing will give me a chance to get to know her a little better also. My step mom died 2 years ago. My dad met this lady about 9 months ago. She seems to be very nice but it hasn't given us much time to get to know each other (especially when I am busy with my own family).

 

[Mayor Al]

Have you considered the 'snake-shot' revolver round in the 357. Load 4 of them and 2 38 Special fmj's if the coyotes keep coming. The snakeshot are only good for a short-range...but they would turn a dog around. The recoil on the snakeshot is minimal.

 

[bearcatter]

Sounds like until the thee coyotes are dead or captured, this lady does not need to be in the woods alone. Another, armed, person should be with her.

Later, her limited ability suggests the bear mace, or some mil-surp hand grenades, if she can throw better than she shoots.....

 

[Rivers2k]

Later, her limited ability suggests the bear mace, or some mil-surp hand grenades, if she can throw better than she shoots.....

LOL yeah Vermont doesn't have much for gun laws but I do think Grenades are on the no no list.

 

[Rivers2k]

Have you considered the 'snake-shot' revolver round in the 357. Load 4 of them and 2 38 Special fmj's if the coyotes keep coming. The snakeshot are only good for a short-range...but they would turn a dog around. The recoil on the snakeshot is minimal.

She isn't recoil shy. I didn't think you could get .357 snake shot anymore? I have been looking for them everywhere and was told they were discontinued in everything but .22. Please let me know if you know of a place online I can get them.