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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I purchased a lee perfect powder measure. I was loading some 357 with H110. I weigh every load. The measure the more I used it got stiffer and stiffer. Also I was getting powder throws that were varying by as much as 3/10ths of a grain. Is this normal or should I run over it. Which has ton through my mind. :D
 

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I bought one for $10, as part of a larger package of stuff a guy was getting rid of. It was brand new in the box, never used. I thought, cool, I could use a 2nd powder measure. My main was an RCBS and it worked great.
I tried several times with several powders and I could never get that thing to throw more than 2-3 consistent charges. Sometimes it was off by only .2gr, other times off by up to .6gr. I wouldn't give it away being that bad, so it just sits in its own very good condition, new box.

Good luck with that
 

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I weigh every load.
:mad::mad::confused:

BAD MONKEY!! The whole point of the PPM is to load by VOLUME, NOT WEIGHT!!

Volume has a reference, but ONLY A REFERENCE to a weight. They are NOT the same thing, nor aiming for the same thing.
Ergo, YES the weight will vary, it isn't dispensing weight!! If you don't have it, BUY Lee's Modern Reloading, and READ the section on Volume; starts around page 87 IIRC.

The "stiffness" is a long well known issue, That Lee has offered advice on for years. Buy some graphite, and coat the internal friction portion of the drum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
So you are saying that each throw of the powder measure is the same volume but different density. If that is the case it would seam powder measures are not the ideal tool for reloading. Or the safest if you are loading maximum loads. The data I have is grains which I believe is a measure of mass. You make a good point sir.
 

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Yup, it's a messy measure with ball powders.

Anytime you're working at or near max loads you SHOULD be weighing every charge. Volume measuring is good for proven or known loads for faster loading, but when you're working near the edge it pays to be precise.

That said, my most accurate load in my HB 308 is loaded with a Lee dipper, but it's not a max load.
 

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Mine throws near exact weight charges using H-110, Accurate ball powders, and short stick powders…

A given volume is a given weight for a specific powder. So technically, you are loading by weight or volume however you look at it...

I do have a bit of the problem you mentioned with WC-820 powder as it is nearly as fine as baby powder and it can get between the drum and the measurer…

You need to remove the drum and coat it with graphite, reinstall, and tighten the drum to where it is a bit difficult to work with the lever. Back off just a bit…

As I mentioned, I get it set and then weight about every 7th or 8th round. Sometimes not even that often. Just charge the case and set them side by side and look into each with a flashlight. That is how I do it and have never had a problem…

The Lee measure will throw very accurate weight charges. As a matter of fact, I have an RCBS Uniflow and I think the Lee will outdo it. The RCBS is better for longer stick powder I do think…

Good-luck…BCB
 

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I have one and I like it. It throws ball powders out consistantly, not so with some extruded powder. After I got in the habit of lifting the handle, about a half inch, once or twice then bringing it down, like tapping it, the problem went away, and threw consistant loads......Robin
 

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:mad::mad::confused:

BAD MONKEY!! The whole point of the PPM is to load by VOLUME, NOT WEIGHT!!

Volume has a reference, but ONLY A REFERENCE to a weight. They are NOT the same thing, nor aiming for the same thing.
Ergo, YES the weight will vary, it isn't dispensing weight!! If you don't have it, BUY Lee's Modern Reloading, and READ the section on Volume; starts around page 87 IIRC.

The "stiffness" is a long well known issue, That Lee has offered advice on for years. Buy some graphite, and coat the internal friction portion of the drum.
Don't confuse a new reloader with the volume/weight controversy. If weight were'n an issue why does every reloading manual give data showing weight of powder charges?

OP, until you get a handle on reloading as a whole just stick with the tried and true methods outlined in all major reloading manuals.

Check the drum screw on the side of your measure and mebbe loosen it up a bit. Or remove the drum and clean it up and treat with graphite as mentioned above. I've only had problems with a few poeders in my PPM...
 

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Wow. Volume? That big of a difference? The PPM I used with IMR 3031 chewed it's way to some fairly uniform drops when I was loading some .223 and .30-30 loads. I wasn't near max so a slight overage wasn't that big a deal. I find volume to be darn near always the same weight when the volume is held to the same each time you drop the powder.
 

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Mine works. But I followed the directions exactly, including metering a full canister of powder through it to coat everything with powder and graphite before I began using it.

I still put every second or third load on the scale to check it out, but I seldom have to adjust it more than .1 or so if anything. I simply trickle a bit in or out to make it perfect when needed. That way, I get to play with the trickler, too. I have a really old Lyman 55 that I use sometimes, but I find the Lee is just as reliable.

Remember, part of the fun is the process of getting there. Slow down and enjoy yourself.
 

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So you are saying that each throw of the powder measure is the same volume but different density. If that is the case it would seam powder measures are not the ideal tool for reloading. Or the safest if you are loading maximum loads. The data I have is grains which I believe is a measure of density. You make a good point sir.
You are 100% correct (well, grains are a measure of wieght, but in your context, density gets the notion across). Volume measuring, as a substitute for measuring weight, provides an approximation that is "good enough" for many if not most purposes.

Even the scales that we can afford to purchase and actually keep calibrated have an accuracy of +/- 0.1gr.

When I struggled through this same dilemma (or dilemna, if you prefer) I decided to weigh all rifle and many pistol charges, leaving "only" that +/-0.1gr variation :). If I were near max- or min-loads, I would also weigh each charge.
 

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Mine works very well. I also run a canister of powder through it as per the directions. Iv'e only used two types of powder. Titegroup and H4350 which are totally differant types and at most have never varied more than 0.1 grn. when checked on the digital. Ceapea, send your garbage one to me and I'll gladly pay the shipping.
 

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So you are saying that each throw of the powder measure is the same volume but different density. If that is the case it would seam powder measures are not the ideal tool for reloading. Or the safest if you are loading maximum loads. The data I have is grains which I believe is a measure of density. You make a good point sir.
I would advise caution in assessing Darkker's volume/weight usage assertions. For some perspective, read through this thread, paying particular attention to Iowegan's advice @ Post 41 and Clovishound's Post 45.

Darkker's kool-aid, taken undiluted, leaves the reloader with no method to monitor the continuous proper operation of the volume device.
 

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When i was loading on a friends bench before i got my own set up, i found that i got the most uniform charges if i tapped the powder measure gemtly before each charge. H110 is almost like sand. It made my lee auto disk and my redding powder measure both feel grainy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am sorry I used the word density in my post. I have fixed it to say mass. Grains is a unit of mass that is. Mass is the same wherever you go whether on earth or the moon. Weight on the other hand is just a measure of force. If I remember my college science. I weigh less on the moon than I do here. My Mass remains the same. Balance scales measure mass and won't change if you are on the moon but your bathroom scale will.
 

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I am sorry I used the word density in my post. I have fixed it to say mass. Grains is a unit of mass that is. Mass is the same wherever you go whether on earth or the moon. Weight on the other hand is just a measure of force. If I remember my college science. I weigh less on the moon than I do here. My Mass remains the same. Balance scales measure mass and won't change if you are on the moon but your bathroom scale will.
Not to get to far off in the weeds here, but electronic scales - which we often use - measure only weight, or force. So, in the context of reloading, weight is the accepted term.
 

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... If I remember my college science ...
You remember it very well. Mass is the measurement of the amount of matter something contains. Weight is the measure of the force resulting from (local) gravity acting upon that amount of matter.

Force, generally, is mass times acceleration. In the special case where the force of interest is weight, the acceleration is that attributable to (local) gravity. So, generally, F=MA and, in the special case where we're looking at weight, W=MG where W is the force we call weight and G the acceleration that is the local gravity.

We make a big deal about (local) gravity because it does vary, sometimes a very little (county to county) and sometimes a lot (earth to moon). (see here)
 

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deep into the weeds

Not to get to far off in the weeds here, but electronic scales - which we often use - measure only weight, or force. So, in the context of reloading, weight is the accepted term.
Electronic scales report weight because they are zeroed @ start up and/or calibrated in use using a known mass.

It's an interesting topic because grains, like grams, are properly a unit of mass (a grain is now defined in the Int'l System of units in milligrams). However, popular usage for grains, grams, and all the rest are actually as weight.
 

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The construction of the Lee measure can allow certain fine ball propellants to accumulate between the drum and housing, which is the cause of the stiffness. It is not causing a change in the amount of powder in the reservoir; either in volume, or weight. As Darrker advised, the use of some powdered graphite between those two surfaces will help, but the truth remains that there are some fine ball powders that it won't like. The Lee powder measure works its very best and shines brightly with bulky powders that confound other measures. I can throw H-4831 or IMR-4064 all day and never be off more than a tenth with either of my Lee measures, which will cause me no end of frustration with my Uniflow. For that reason, I use my Uniflow for ball propellants, and the Lee Perfect for when I'm charging cases with long grained powders, and life is good.
 
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