isn't that perfect. loaded 100 rds an hand checked each load. about 7 out 10 loads were lite drops[ .1 to .3 grs]. I do not know if all powder measures do that or not? I guess that is why I was having some failure to eject problems. any advice on a better measure! I don't shoot a lot so hand weighing each load isn't that bad but if I don't have to do it it would be easer an quicker on loading. checking every 10 rds would be nice. thank for your help. TOMD1943
Lees perfect powder measure
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That's OK. Everytime I see this thread I read it as Less perfect powder measure.
Maybe I'm reading it right! 
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Hrmmmf.
Everyone expects to take a tool out of the box and it will do a perfect regardless of the skill of the operator- probably why benchrest shooters tend to gravitate towards volumetric powder drops over time and low volume reloaders buy $300 automatic dispensing balances.
Sorry the LPPM beats every other sub $100 measure, hands down, if you take time to use it correctly and with the right powders.
First, what the lppm does not do well- flake powders and fine ball powders. Don't even bother using it for these- use a Lee disc measure, RCBS, Lyman, Redding measure instead.
What the Lppm excels at- stick and extruded powders such as IMRs, Varget, VV and RL rifle powders. None of the measures in the paragraph above will beat a LPPM for accuracy with these powders.
1. make sure the drum is adequately tight but not overtightened.
2. Before even using it, fill the hopper and run charge it back into the powder bottle by running the handle up and down.
3. Run the handle the same way every time. I run it up, tap the drum 3x with my finger, run it down smartly, tap the drum 3x more. Practice makes perfect.
4. run 3 charges through it before weighing a charge, make the adjustment, then run 3 more through before weighing, repeat until you get it set right.
5. if you make a less than perfect stroke on the handle, dump the charge, run 2 more through before using the charge.
6. if you are running it on a Lee turret press, run the turret all the way around as if you were actually reloading before taking samples for weighting. consistancy is the key.
6. your charges with an IMR powder should be within +/-0.1 gr. But some will say "that's not good enough" I say that's within the accuracy tolerances of most reloading balances, and is actually spectacular accuracy with IMR powders. If you work up loads using a ladder or the OCW method, 0.1 gr difference from the mean is insignificant, and you should be looking other places for accuracy improvement like finding optimum seating depth and reducing runout.
Everyone expects to take a tool out of the box and it will do a perfect regardless of the skill of the operator- probably why benchrest shooters tend to gravitate towards volumetric powder drops over time and low volume reloaders buy $300 automatic dispensing balances.
Sorry the LPPM beats every other sub $100 measure, hands down, if you take time to use it correctly and with the right powders.
First, what the lppm does not do well- flake powders and fine ball powders. Don't even bother using it for these- use a Lee disc measure, RCBS, Lyman, Redding measure instead.
What the Lppm excels at- stick and extruded powders such as IMRs, Varget, VV and RL rifle powders. None of the measures in the paragraph above will beat a LPPM for accuracy with these powders.
1. make sure the drum is adequately tight but not overtightened.
2. Before even using it, fill the hopper and run charge it back into the powder bottle by running the handle up and down.
3. Run the handle the same way every time. I run it up, tap the drum 3x with my finger, run it down smartly, tap the drum 3x more. Practice makes perfect.
4. run 3 charges through it before weighing a charge, make the adjustment, then run 3 more through before weighing, repeat until you get it set right.
5. if you make a less than perfect stroke on the handle, dump the charge, run 2 more through before using the charge.
6. if you are running it on a Lee turret press, run the turret all the way around as if you were actually reloading before taking samples for weighting. consistancy is the key.
6. your charges with an IMR powder should be within +/-0.1 gr. But some will say "that's not good enough" I say that's within the accuracy tolerances of most reloading balances, and is actually spectacular accuracy with IMR powders. If you work up loads using a ladder or the OCW method, 0.1 gr difference from the mean is insignificant, and you should be looking other places for accuracy improvement like finding optimum seating depth and reducing runout.
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I have the RCBS Uniflow and the Lyman B5, the B5 is an awesome machine, the Uniflow just work forever. I've tried a Lee, and I have a few friends who have tried them too - none of us use them today.
Your mileage may vary, but I bet not by much.
Your mileage may vary, but I bet not by much.
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I use either my Lee or RCBS powder measurers then check weigh each load in my rifleswhen using powders like imr4350 3031 etc neither measure will throw perfect every charge everytime although not as bad as OPs measure. I agree the RCBS measure will last forever probably mine is over 30 years old the lee is only 15years or so both have measured thousands of loads.
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You didn't say how you run your Lee measure or what powder you use. With volumetric-type measures it is very important that the powder inside is shaken between consecutive drops. This make the powder settle consistently in the measuring cavity before it is dropped into the case.
If you have your measure on a single stage press or if you use it standalone you need to bumb the hopper with your hand/fingers a couple of times before dropping the load. On the turret press you need to rotate the turret a full circle between drops, and do not be too delicate about working handle. The hopper needs some good shakin' to give you acurate powder charges.
I use Lee's powder measure on a turret press and it drops 4.1 gr of N320 or W231 all day long so consitently that my beem scale canot tell the difference.
If you have your measure on a single stage press or if you use it standalone you need to bumb the hopper with your hand/fingers a couple of times before dropping the load. On the turret press you need to rotate the turret a full circle between drops, and do not be too delicate about working handle
. The hopper needs some good shakin' to give you acurate powder charges.I use Lee's powder measure on a turret press and it drops 4.1 gr of N320 or W231 all day long so consitently that my beem scale canot tell the difference.
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367 Posts
NO NO NO!!!
If you are using the Lee PPM:
You DO NOT check the VOLUME dispensed(which is what THAT does) against a WEIGHT dispensed(Which is NOT what a volume device does)!!!
READ YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, and really READ THE LEE MANUAL!!
All factory and military ammo is loaded with VOLUME machines, NOT scales.
As long as you don't have a static issue, here is how it works.
ALL POWDER has a spec range, or an "allowed" variation for BOTH Bulk Density(BD) AND Burning Rate(BR). With Extruded powder, those two are kept in a very strict relationship to each other.
If a powder has a higher BD, then the BR will be correspondingly slower. the opposite is also true.
If you WEIGH extruded powder with a "heavier" BD: You will have LESS powder in the case(because of the high BD), WITH a correspondingly slower BR. So even though the WEIGHT is "correct" you have less case fill, with a slower burning powder. The load is perfectly safe, but the pressures will be less than you "expected".
If you do VOLUME in that same scenario: The Amount of powder will be the same(relative to case fill), the weight will be more, and the BR slower. So because (relative to weight) you have MORE slow burning powder in the case, your pressures will be much closer to what you were "Expecting".
Also remember the extruded powders BR are controlled by geometry and surface area, NOT coatings. So the folks who get excited about "cutting" powders do so needlessly. The resultant change is very minor.
BALL powder has it's BR controlled by Coatings, so the theory behind volume doesn't apply as neatly. The only saving grace is that the size of the grains is so consistent, that it can work technically.
If you are using the Lee PPM:
You DO NOT check the VOLUME dispensed(which is what THAT does) against a WEIGHT dispensed(Which is NOT what a volume device does)!!!
READ YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, and really READ THE LEE MANUAL!!
All factory and military ammo is loaded with VOLUME machines, NOT scales.
As long as you don't have a static issue, here is how it works.
ALL POWDER has a spec range, or an "allowed" variation for BOTH Bulk Density(BD) AND Burning Rate(BR). With Extruded powder, those two are kept in a very strict relationship to each other.
If a powder has a higher BD, then the BR will be correspondingly slower. the opposite is also true.
If you WEIGH extruded powder with a "heavier" BD: You will have LESS powder in the case(because of the high BD), WITH a correspondingly slower BR. So even though the WEIGHT is "correct" you have less case fill, with a slower burning powder. The load is perfectly safe, but the pressures will be less than you "expected".
If you do VOLUME in that same scenario: The Amount of powder will be the same(relative to case fill), the weight will be more, and the BR slower. So because (relative to weight) you have MORE slow burning powder in the case, your pressures will be much closer to what you were "Expecting".
Also remember the extruded powders BR are controlled by geometry and surface area, NOT coatings. So the folks who get excited about "cutting" powders do so needlessly. The resultant change is very minor.
BALL powder has it's BR controlled by Coatings, so the theory behind volume doesn't apply as neatly. The only saving grace is that the size of the grains is so consistent, that it can work technically.
I've always used weigh when droping powder. I don't understand volume measures even after reading the manual that came with the kit. I only load 9mm pistol. I have a single stage press by lee. I've used HS-6,universal, an now titegroup powders. the titegroup is tite with the weighs, meaning that from start to max is only .4 grs. so with the machine dropping a few tens lite I get fte's. when i'm shooting bowling pins, we shoot head to head, so one fte will result in a lost of that round for me. I will be checking every powder drop from now on. an I do pat the machine 4 or 5 times when i drop the powder into the weigh chamber an when i drop it into the casing. but it still comes up lite quite often. it's better lite then heavy. can trickle in faster then removing for pan. thanks for the advice. that is what i like about this forum. good advice from good people. TOMD1943
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I must be one of the lucky ones. I don't bother with the graduation marks on the measure. I just get it close and then adjust until it drops what I want by checking on my digital scales. Then it drops the same, each and every time. I'll check about every fourth charge or so and it is consistent using titegroup and H4350. I haven't had any ftfs or issues of any kind.
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619 Posts
Do yourself a favor and buy an RCBS Uniflow. Mine is very consistent and I have been using it for over 20 years. I use ball powders for all of my handgun reloading and every LEE powder measure I have ever used leaks powder. The finer the powder the worse it leaks.
I have the Lee, RCBS and Redding measures. The Lee is plastic, feels cheap and works just as well as the others. I was using it with Varget last week and was getting consistent drops with an occasional one less than a tenth light. I purposely set it a little light so I could tickle to the final load.
Ed
Ed
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2,101 Posts
This is correct as well.
For my highpower loads, I measure by weight when working up a load, then set the LPPM by weight, then leave it.
One could work up loads based on volumes, but I don't do that, I don't use Lee reloading data for that matter either though.
Different lots of powders I might take some weights of my throws to make sure they are at least ballpark, but I don't touch the adjustment.
When changing lots, volume thrown by the LPPM will be the same, which is far moreimportant than the weight charged. Checking the weights is just a confirmation of consistancy.
These things are cheap enough to buy one for each load that will be fired in high volumes.
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367 Posts
#1 You don't need to use Lee's manual(or any volume info) for loading by volume. You only NEED to do the VMD calculation for YOUR specific powder. Then you can load by volume, from a weight-based manual.
#2 With extruded powder, it is a confirmation of consistency of BLENDING, NOT consistency of amount dispensed; Back to HOW extruded powder is built.
While there COULD always be some exceptions to anything. Smokeless powder is BLENDED to canister grade(meaning what the reloader buys), FROM non-canister grade. Smokeless powder is made by Government agencies and Defense Contractors for military uses, NOT for the reloader. It gets blended, and re-purposed for private sector use.
For an example: Hodgdon never has made 1 ounce of smokeless propellant. All of their extruded powders comes from ADI, who is owned by a French Defense contractor named Thales. Now "alligned" with General Dynamics.
All of their ball powders comes from General Dynamics, an American Defense Contractor. The fine folks that brought you the M1 Abrams tank. They are J.V.'d With ATK(another defense contractor) to operate the military's Radford Arsenal ammo plant. GD supplies 90-some percent of ALL small arms propellant that the US military uses.
CFE223 IS NOT a Hodgdon invention, It is canister grade SMP-842. Which has been in development for 10+ years. It is the propellant used for the M-855 Green(all copper) ammo. The "copper cleaning" technology is a set of Tin/Bismuth compounds first used(for the same purpose) by the French, in the early 1900's. Interesting reading about that and it's development, In Hatcher's Notebook. Was a Major General who ran the army's Springfield ordinance dept. Did a lot of destructive testing, and proofing on small arms and the Garand.
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483 Posts
Yes! The bold/underlined/italicized is difficult for many folks to understand, but I have found it to be the case, too, particularly with stick powders.
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2,101 Posts
I completely agree with what you say...
However, my load workup is slightly unorthodox (My methods are very similar to the 'Optimal charge weight' method) and I use charged weights as reference points only. After a find a load from a given lot of powder that's at a node, I'll reset the measure to dump a volume that gives the same charge weight. A little +/- between charges makes no difference, a different charge weight from the same volume of another lot of powder doesn't matter either (
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523 Posts
Sorry, but I most strongly disagree.
I have a PPM & it leaks like a sieve with Tite Group, Universal, AA5 & W296.
The only powder I use that doesn't leak is Varget.
And that one is wildly inconsistent.
The Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure is way better IMHO & it's $39 at MidwayUSA
I also have an RCBS Uniflow - it's about $80
And on my press I have a Dillon PM - it's about $77
All 3 of them work very well.
Variances are +- .1 gr once I get it setup.
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1,115 Posts
I only use a lee perfect powder measure and have for over 25 years the same one . There are a couple powders it don't like but still works better then the RCBS I payed over $70 for . The Lee kept a more consistent throw with most powders. I have loaded over 10,000 with mine.
I traded the RCBS two months after I got it .
Don't spend big $$$ on powder throwers they don't work any better than the cheaper Lee .
Save your money for bullets...
I traded the RCBS two months after I got it .
Don't spend big $$$ on powder throwers they don't work any better than the cheaper Lee .
Save your money for bullets...
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