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Discussion Starter #1
The caliber is 7 Rem Mag, the bullet is Hornady’s 150gr ELD-X, (#2826). My powder of choice is IMR4350. Can anyone tell me Hornady’s min/max charge with this particular bullet/powder combination? I’m pretty confident I can start at 61grs and push it to 63grs if needed. . A COAL isn’t necessary.
 

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Hornady manual says: Accurate 4350, 150gr ELD-X, 53.1gr for 2600 fps, 55.7gr for 2500 fps, and 58.3 gr for a max load at 2800 fps.
 

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Wish it was.

Isn’t Hornady's load data online? It used to be.

Hope you find something useful.
I wish it was online, I go to a store who has the book, find the info I need, take a pic of the pages. Nuthin cheap about me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hornady manual says: Accurate 4350, 150gr ELD-X, 53.1gr for 2600 fps, 55.7gr for 2500 fps, and 58.3 gr for a max load at 2800 fps.
No IMR4350? Well that’s disappointing. I’ve been using Nosler’s 150gr Accubonds, but at .60 cents a pop it’s getting expensive. With 61grs of the IMR, (a midrange load) it’s producing 3120fps at muzzle, it’s super accurate and hits like a sledgehammer at 500yds.

Thanks for the data..........I may be rethinking my bullet choice now. Oh well, it’s only money.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Isn’t Hornady's load data online? It used to be.

Hope you find something useful.
Majorlk, the only time Hornady posts on line is when something new is added, (new cartridge, bullet or some type of up date).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I guess my memory is faulty. Sorry. I guess I was thinking of powder manufacturers
The powder manufacturers are pretty good about publishing data.......bullet maker, not so much.
 

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If you get the Hornady app (I imagine online too) you can buy the data cartridge by cartridge if you only load one cartridge. But come on guys, a manual is $25-$30 when it’s not on sale. A lot of expense and work goes into it and once you have the manual, it becomes a reference book, comparing different bullets, calibers, etc. It’s a pound of powder or a box of bullets.




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Mark, Hornady lists 17 different powders for the 150gr ELD in a 7mm Mag, none of which are IMR 4350. In IMR powders, they list loads for 4451, 4831, and 7828. The fastest max load is 3000 fps with Alliant RL-25. Keep in mind.... Hornady data is very conservative, Nosler is way closer to factory velocities, which are 3110 fps for 150gr bullets from most ammo manufacturers. 63gr of IMR 4350 with a magnum large rifle primer is the hottest load in the Nosler manual at 3248 fps. I would think your 150gr Hornady ELD-X bullet should work just fine with 61gr of IMR 4350 …. 2 grains less than max and listed at 3138 fps in the Nosler manual.
 

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Iowegan, I’m surprised that Hornady didn’t have a listing for IMR4350. I’m not sure if you’ve dabbled with the 7 Mag but the 4350 is the go to powder among most reloaders, (it’s pretty dang good in my 25-06 too, regardless of bullet weight).

Truth be told I was going to run with Hornady’s ELD-X bullets even after you told me there was no listing for IMR4350. My logic is the same as yours......2grs under max per Nosler, combine that with the fact I seat long, (about.020 off) I don’t anticipate any pressure spike.

I wasn’t going to admit to doing this until you opened the door and this won’t be the first time I’ve done it either. I know this is something that a newer reloader would frown on but I have Lyman books , (as I’m sure you do) that go back to 1957. Hell back then there was no manufacturers bullet listed unlike today. It would list a 150 or a 170 and then your powder choices and a min/max charge. Funny how some things don’t change though, I compared a load from the ‘57 book to the current one......nothing changed other than now they list the bullet maker in the data. Granted I won’t recommend mixing components to anyone but I don’t frown on it provided they start at square one on load development.
 

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Mark204, You can get by with some things much easier in rifle loads than in handgun loads, mostly because rifle loads use very slow burning powders. If you seat a 9mm bullet just .030" too deep, it can double chamber pressure. Seating a rifle bullet .030" deeper increases chamber pressure by only a few hundred psi. Except for slow burning magnum powders, most handgun powders burn up in just a few inches of bullet travel. Most rifle powder take 20 to 24" of bullet travel to burn up, magnum rifle powders take even more.

I fired up QuickLOAD and set it for 62gr of IMR 4350 in a 7mm Mag cartridge. Chamber pressure with the Hornady 150gr bullet was 2,896 psi higher than the same load with a Nosler 150gr bullet. 3k psi is less than 5% difference …. not enough to worry about and still under 61k psi SAAMI max pressure.
 

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Really enjoying 'recently picked up' Lyman's latest manual and IMR 4350 is listed for many loads very near to 150g but not actual bullet and of course there are varying seating depths that MUST pay attention to. But like that powder alot!

Thats one of the things i like so much about Quickload, estimating similiar RIFLE bullet loads that are tied very closely to PUBLISHED data. Still must use extreme caution but boy it sure is handy, tho can never recommend doing it.

150g range bullets are stunning performers even up to .308 dia in my rifle experience tho dont have that caliber.
 

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Mark204, You can get by with some things much easier in rifle loads than in handgun loads, mostly because rifle loads use very slow burning powders. If you seat a 9mm bullet just .030" too deep, it can double chamber pressure. Seating a rifle bullet .030" deeper increases chamber pressure by only a few hundred psi. Except for slow burning magnum powders, most handgun powders burn up in just a few inches of bullet travel. Most rifle powder take 20 to 24" of bullet travel to burn up, magnum rifle powders take even more.

I fired up QuickLOAD and set it for 62gr of IMR 4350 in a 7mm Mag cartridge. Chamber pressure with the Hornady 150gr bullet was 2,896 psi higher than the same load with a Nosler 150gr bullet. 3k psi is less than 5% difference …. not enough to worry about and still under 61k psi SAAMI max pressure.
I don't know why data books don't indicate seating depth when talking about generic bullets (125gr FMJ 0r 158gr lead bullet for example). It would seem like a more precise way to load. Does QuickLOAD do it?
 

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mk3, I wouldn't waste my time using load data that does not include COL (bullet seating depth) nor would I use data for a "generic bullet". Yes, QuickLOAD gives a recommended bullet seating depth …. usually the same exact OAL as the bullet manufacturer's reloading manual. You can also change the OAL and see what happens to chamber pressure. QuickLOAD is NOT a reloading manual …. it's just computer generated data based on powder properties, case capacity, bullet weight, and other factors. Usually it is very close to published data, however I just use it as a sanity test for loads from a reputable reloading manual or a "what if?" for seating bullets different than recommended COL.
 

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mk3, I wouldn't waste my time using load data that does not include COL (bullet seating depth) nor would I use data for a "generic bullet". Yes, QuickLOAD gives a recommended bullet seating depth …. usually the same exact OAL as the bullet manufacturer's reloading manual. You can also change the OAL and see what happens to chamber pressure. QuickLOAD is NOT a reloading manual …. it's just computer generated data based on powder properties, case capacity, bullet weight, and other factors. Usually it is very close to published data, however I just use it as a sanity test for loads from a reputable reloading manual or a "what if?" for seating bullets different than recommended COL.
Iowegan, I understand that the best and safest cartridge one can make is from using the data from the bullet manufacturer, using their exact same components.
But because for various reasons it is not always possible or cost effective to use a given manufacturers bullet and from what I gather a lot of people use bullets from folks who don't publish books.
I am not suggesting to not include the COL from that data but it would be nice to also know how much of the bullet is sitting beneath the surface so that if one is using a bullet of the same weight but with a different ogive or exterior shape, one would be sure to not seat the bullet too deep and avoid too much pressure. If I was using a 45ACP Precision Delta 230gr FMJ for example and using the data and COL from Lyman or Hornady I would like to know for my own sanity that it is not seated .030 deeper than the one Lyman is using.
I hope this makes sense.
 

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mk3, I totally understand what you mean. Although QuickLOAD may not be 100% perfect for determining chamber pressure, it does tell you a lot about comparing different bullets and different seating depths (COL). For example ….. if you have two loads that use the same exact powder charge, case and primer, with the same bullet weight and COL but different type bullets, you would think chamber pressure and velocity would be the same ….. but it isn't. Why? The shape/style of the bullet can change the amount of volume inside the case, which in turn changes chamber pressure and velocity. Another example: lets say you have a 158gr FMJ and a 158gr JHP. The JHP will be longer because the hollow point requires more length to achieve the same weight. As such, if COL is the same, the hollow point bullet will be seated deeper, which will increase chamber pressure by a notable amount.

The second issue is the bullet's bearing surface with the bore. Again, two different bullets with the same weight, same powder charge, primer, case, and COL ….. the bullet with more contact surface area will increase chamber pressure.

So, without having a resource like QuickLOAD, it's just a guessing game that could result in poor performance or possibly an over pressure situation, depending if chamber pressure increases or decreases. QuickLOAD lets you do "what ifs", meaning you can change the seating depths with different bullets to find the depth that gives you the same chamber pressure as a book load. Problem is ….. even though QuickLOAD lists a ton of different brands, weights, and styles of bullets, many of the no-name bulk bullets are not listed so you are back to a guessing game again. QuickLOAD does have provisions to "make your own bullet" by plugging in the dimensions from an actual sample bullet. I've only tried this once with a lead bullet and my load data tracked very close to a book load.

Sometimes it's just no big deal …. like shooting over pressure 38 Specials in a revolver chambered for 357 Mag. If 38 Special chamber pressure (17k psi max) was 50% too high (25.5k psi), it might damage a revolver chambered for 38 Specials but because a 357 Mag chamber is rated at 35,000 psi, it would be well under max pressure limits. The issue here is to never shoot mystery bullets in a 38 Special revolver.

45 ACPs don't have that luxury …. their max chamber pressure is 21K psi but the good news is … the larger the bullet diameter, the less chamber pressure is affected by COL. So …. stay off the high end of the charts and you should be OK by using load data and COL for the same weight and style bullet.

Lets discuss cost …. no doubt you can save a lot of money by buying bulk grade or no-name bullets. What I found when using bulk grade Remington or Winchester jacketed bullets …. none of the bullets weighed their advertised weight…. ie 230gr 45 cal FMJs …. some weigh a few grains lighter or a few grains heavier but never 230gr. This is OK for practice or plinking ammo but certainly not good enough for match grade performance.

I started using Missouri coated 230gr lead bullets in my 1911s a few years ago …. no specific load data and the bullets are not listed in QuickLOAD …. but they are much cheaper than name brand bullets. I chronographed book loads using Hornady 230gr LRN at 840 fps with 6gr of Unique. Using the same load data, I found the Missouri bullets were about 60 fps faster (900 fps) so I reduced the charge weight to 5.8gr and they came out to virtually identical velocities. This tells me chamber pressure has to be very close to the same plus I could go up to 900 fps with 6.6gr of Unique without exceeding the 21k psi max pressure limit so I know this load is safely within limits.
 

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mk3, I totally understand what you mean. Although QuickLOAD may not be 100% perfect for determining chamber pressure, it does tell you a lot about comparing different bullets and different seating depths (COL). For example ….. if you have two loads that use the same exact powder charge, case and primer, with the same bullet weight and COL but different type bullets, you would think chamber pressure and velocity would be the same ….. but it isn't. Why? The shape/style of the bullet can change the amount of volume inside the case, which in turn changes chamber pressure and velocity. Another example: lets say you have a 158gr FMJ and a 158gr JHP. The JHP will be longer because the hollow point requires more length to achieve the same weight. As such, if COL is the same, the hollow point bullet will be seated deeper, which will increase chamber pressure by a notable amount.

The second issue is the bullet's bearing surface with the bore. Again, two different bullets with the same weight, same powder charge, primer, case, and COL ….. the bullet with more contact surface area will increase chamber pressure.

So, without having a resource like QuickLOAD, it's just a guessing game that could result in poor performance or possibly an over pressure situation, depending if chamber pressure increases or decreases. QuickLOAD lets you do "what ifs", meaning you can change the seating depths with different bullets to find the depth that gives you the same chamber pressure as a book load. Problem is ….. even though QuickLOAD lists a ton of different brands, weights, and styles of bullets, many of the no-name bulk bullets are not listed so you are back to a guessing game again. QuickLOAD does have provisions to "make your own bullet" by plugging in the dimensions from an actual sample bullet. I've only tried this once with a lead bullet and my load data tracked very close to a book load.

Sometimes it's just no big deal …. like shooting over pressure 38 Specials in a revolver chambered for 357 Mag. If 38 Special chamber pressure (17k psi max) was 50% too high (25.5k psi), it might damage a revolver chambered for 38 Specials but because a 357 Mag chamber is rated at 35,000 psi, it would be well under max pressure limits. The issue here is to never shoot mystery bullets in a 38 Special revolver.

45 ACPs don't have that luxury …. their max chamber pressure is 21K psi but the good news is … the larger the bullet diameter, the less chamber pressure is affected by COL. So …. stay off the high end of the charts and you should be OK by using load data and COL for the same weight and style bullet.

Lets discuss cost …. no doubt you can save a lot of money by buying bulk grade or no-name bullets. What I found when using bulk grade Remington or Winchester jacketed bullets …. none of the bullets weighed their advertised weight…. ie 230gr 45 cal FMJs …. some weigh a few grains lighter or a few grains heavier but never 230gr. This is OK for practice or plinking ammo but certainly not good enough for match grade performance.

I started using Missouri coated 230gr lead bullets in my 1911s a few years ago …. no specific load data and the bullets are not listed in QuickLOAD …. but they are much cheaper than name brand bullets. I chronographed book loads using Hornady 230gr LRN at 840 fps with 6gr of Unique. Using the same load data, I found the Missouri bullets were about 60 fps faster (900 fps) so I reduced the charge weight to 5.8gr and they came out to virtually identical velocities. This tells me chamber pressure has to be very close to the same plus I could go up to 900 fps with 6.6gr of Unique without exceeding the 21k psi max pressure limit so I know this load is safely within limits.
Boy, cant improve on that description!!

...another example of bullets not typically listed in manuals (or not always listed in QL for that matter) would be the 'Hollow Base' bullets, the use of these (such as Berrys) change volume capacity in the cartridge space where the explosion occurs .... when compared to flatbase.

Yet in QL, you can tag the bullet as HB (or even BoatTails too), then customize the bullet 'base' dims of both HB & BT bullets which will then alter the calculated results for your 'estimation' .... calculated PSI is one example. You can also adjust initial estimation of the hardness of your bullet, before calculating.
 

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Here is your IMR 4350 data. Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading. It is for Nosler and Barnes bullets. I use IMR 4350 as my go to powder for most loads. I resize 7mm Mag cases to 257 Weatherby and the load data is similar. Great powder and very consistent. I have killed pronghorns out to 563 yards with my favorite load in 30-06 and out to 429 yards in 243. Really a great powder even compared to the latest.
 
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