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Discussion Starter #1
I think I may have just won the 40mm AO limbo contest... :D



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It is hard to see the clearance in the picture but it does clear the barrel by exactly .009"... a .010" thickness gauge will not pass... two sheets of computer paper will barely make it...



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Got these rings on sale for $9.99...

Weaver 1 Quad-Lock 4X4 Rings Matte Medium

Mounted on a Weaver TO-9 rail the rings are not tall enough and scope will not fit...

Mounted on this Weaver Multi-slot rail which is approximately .1" higher it makes it...

Weaver 1-Piece Multi Slot Tactical Weaver-Style Base Ruger 10/22 Matte

Rail and rings...both are quite nice IMO...both shipped for under $24...hard to beat all things considered...

Going to have mortify the lens caps to fit now... :D
 

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Wow. That would be my ideal setup for a scope. I've been looking at the same rings in 30mm, Low for a red dot that I have on my 10/22. For some stupid reason the rings that came with it keep the optic up off the gun about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. It's annoyingly high.

Love the look of that setup! Well-done.
 

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Lower is best.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for compliments...of course I just got lucky with cheap trial and error parts I caught on sale at MidwayUSA.com... :D

Lens cap mortification complete...ready to go miss some steel rams... :mad:



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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you...

Because I have been obsessed lately with getting my scopes as low as possible I have tried searching and asking for help repeatedly with very limited success so I figured I would post pics and product details for anyone else with a 40mm objective and a bull barrel wanting the same results...

Next thing for me to do is to modify a set of rings to mount directly to the receiver and see how low I can get my 2-7x28mm scope...

As of now it mounts on a Weaver TO-9 rail in Weaver Low rings...the center of the scope clears the rail by .05" and the rail itself is .175" thick...the objective still has a ton of clearance from the bull barrel...I think I can lower the scope another .1" at least...maybe quite a bit more...

If I don't flub on the mortification of the rings I'll post pics here when done... :D
 

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I just mounted my Bushnell Red Dot to my 10/22 using the Weaver Quad-Lock Low rings and a Weaver Multi-Slot rail. Lower than the stock rings, but still not as low as I'd like it to be. Oh well... We can't all be champions in the shooting optics limbo like you. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #8


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This is a pic of the 2-7x28mm scope in Weaver Low rings on a Weaver TO-9 rail...it's pretty low as described above...however...going to try to get it much lower by modifying some rings made for a Weaver rail to mount directly to receiver...if it works out THEN I'll deserve some credit... :D

I just mounted my Bushnell Red Dot to my 10/22 using the Weaver Quad-Lock Low rings and a Weaver Multi-Slot rail. Lower than the stock rings, but still not as low as I'd like it to be. Oh well... We can't all be champions in the shooting optics limbo like you.
Just a note on that...the 40mm scope in first post is on a Weaver multi-slot rail...

The 28mm scope is on a Weaver TO-9 rail...

If you want to drop your Red Dot or anything else approximately .1" switch to the TO-9 rail...I have not made super accurate measurements on it but the difference is quite close to .10"

The great thing about these rails is they are really low price... :D

Weaver 1-Piece Tip-Off Weaver-Style Scope Base Ruger 10/22 #TO-9M

Another really great feature of the TO-9 rail is that it is not only very low profile and very low cost but also is two rails in one...As of now I mount both the 28mm and the Williams peep sight on the same rail...just not at the same time...



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Another really great feature of the TO-9 rail is that it is not only very low profile and very low cost but also is two rails in one...As of now I mount both the 28mm and the Williams peep sight on the same rail...just not at the same time...
So is it basically like a slotted receiver that you would find on a lever action gun in addition to being a weaver style rail for rings, etc.?
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Yes that is correct...that particular rear peep sight in the picture is a Williams WGRS-54 which is NOT meant to be on a 10/22...it is meant to fit on the slotted receiver typical of most bolt action 22 rifles...I have a Stevens bolt action that WGRS-54 fits on perfectly as well...

This is the peep sight in the picture... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/12...-22-caliber-dovetail-receivers-aluminum-black

NOTE: The normal 22 slot with is NOT the same as the width of the Ruger Factory tip off rail...it is narrower...the peep sight shown in the picture above will NOT fit on the factory rail...what the factory rail is meant for IDK...never figured that one out...makes no sense to me...too wide for 22 rings and too narrow for Weaver rings...

However...my reason for pointing that rail out to you specifically was to let you know that you can drop the height of your red dot .1" which may not sound like a lot but actually is quite a bit lower...notice how much closer to the receiver the points of the dovetail for the rings is...

I like the Weaver multi-slot rail a lot...in addition to my getting lucky on the rail/rings combo with the 40mm scope it is nice to have all the slots...

Also one thing to note about the Weaver brand rings on a Weaver rail is that the cross bolts are square shank and fit perfectly in the slots...no slop...

The large coin-slot nuts for the clamps are great...loving those a lot... :D
 

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Yes that is correct...that particular rear peep sight in the picture is a Williams WGRS-54 which is NOT meant to be on a 10/22...it is meant to fit on the slotted receiver typical of most bolt action 22 rifles...I have a Stevens bolt action that WGRS-54 fits on perfectly as well...

NOTE: The normal 22 slot with is NOT the same as the width of the Ruger Factory tip off rail...it is narrower...the peep sight shown in the picture above will NOT fit on the factory rail...what the factory rail is meant for IDK...never figured that one out...makes no sense to me...too wide for 22 rings and too narrow for Weaver rings...

However...my reason for pointing that rail out to you specifically was to let you know that you can drop the height of your red dot .1" which may not sound like a lot but actually is quite a bit lower...

I like the Weaver multi-slot rail a lot...in addition to my getting lucky on the rail/rings combo with the 40mm scope it is nice to have all the slots...

Also one thing to note about the Weaver brand rings on a Weaver rail is that the cross bolts are square shank and fit perfectly in the slots...no slop...

The large coin-slot nuts for the clamps are great...loving those a lot... :D
I love the multi-slot rail. It allowed me to position my red dot exactly where I wanted it. The quad rings are just about the same width as the space between the center section of the red dot and the rubber eye ring so I didn't have any room to move the optic forward and back. Having the extra slots all the way to both ends allowed me to push the dot back to where I like it to be. It's not uncomfortable to shoot, I just like a low, sleek look. Especially since the dot I'm using is a touch on the large size.

I will say this (to anyone else following this thread)... The Weaver brand rails and rings are by far the nicest ones I've ever encountered. The rings are machined well and fit tightly. The screws are very high quality and there is no slop at all. Also, the square shank on the cross bolts makes for a very secure, wobble-free connection. VERY nice setup. Now that I have the extra-nice rail/rings, I just need another UltraDot (currently have one on my 22/45).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I couldn't agree with you more...very very glad I was able to get both rails and all three sets of rings cheap and they are all nice but I do like the Weavers best all things considered...

Luckily for me I can mill a slot anywhere I want on the TO-9 rail...which you cannot see in the picture but I have done on that rail already...I am also lucky that the slots in the T0-9 rail as is comes fit both scopes for perfect eye relief with my thumbhole stock and short lop...on the factory stock with a 14" lop I need slots farther back and that is why I modified that one...

The Weaver multi-slot rail we both have IMO is a great rail for the money and lower/better than picatinny for 1" tube scopes...

I just wish they had made it with the 22 dovetail on top like the to-9...I can probably do my own...but I will need a new cutter to do it...

What I am hoping to end up with is the 28mm scope mounted with approximately .05" clearance from both receiver and barrel and make a rear peep sight to screw onto the lower half of the scope rings when not using the scope...

A bit optimistic but I have done harder things... :D

Once I get the scope as low as it will go...the rear peep mounted at the same eye level...a front post to match...then I will finalize the cheek rest and it will be done...I have the rest of my life to do it...which is good...problem is that might not be enough time... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I got started on it last night...pics coming later...

Took the Leupold Rifleman Low rings shown above on the walnut stock with the scope I am lowering and modified those rings to fit the receiver...

That puts the bottom of the 1" tube (not the center of the scope)... .120" off the receiver and there is .240" clearance to the barrel...plenty of room still for the objective...

This has lowered the eye level of the scope by .18"....and I am not done lowering yet...

Getting this far was the easy part...lapping everything to perfection to get the scope centered on POI and properly seating the rings to the receiver as well as dealing with the problem of getting the screw head counter sunk with a tight fit and correct length etc is going to take time...probably at least a week maybe more as it will require taking it out to test it with live fire at least once if not two or three times to finish it completely...

Definitely EXTREMELY happy with the results thus far... :D
 

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Very nice.

Will that weaver rail accept picatinny? I know some manufacturers use weaver and picatinny interchangably when they are not really.

I was looking for a picatinny rail for a 10/22 awhile back and found one, but it was significantly more expensive. I'm looking for another one now, and was just wondering if that one you listed would take a picatinny mount like aimpoint and such.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have never had anything Picatinny...however, from searching information before purchasing what I do have which is all Weaver style...a Weaver mount will go on a Picatinny but not vice versa...

If you want a nice slotted rail for cheap for something that can mount on weaver style rail get the Weaver Brand multi-slot rail for the 10/22...midway sells them under $10...there is a link already in this thread...the Scopes/Rails/Rings in this thread are the only ones I can speak to...I am not a scope guy...this 22 is the only gun I own that has a scope...

I can tell you Weaver slots are .150" wide for the cross bolt...I THINK but not sure Picatinny cross bolts will not fit in a .150 slot...most 1" tube stuff seams to be Weaver whereas most 30mm tube stuff and "tactical" stuff is picatinny...

You are on your own for any more info...it's all on the net...

One good way to get specs on both tho is at the Leapers UTG website...they have great information with mechanical drawings for most parts...

They sell cheap 10/22 picatinny rails...you can get their stuff from Optics planet and midwayusa... midway usa also rocks for detailed information on products they sell...

That is everything I know about it... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Work in progress... :D

Getting to this point is the easy part... :eek:

This is the 28mm scope mounted to the Weaver TO-9 rail with Weaver Low rings...the rail is .175" thick...the center of the scope has approx. .05" of clearance to top of rail with that scope/ring combo...there is approximately .240" clearance from objective to .920 bull barrel...



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This is the Leupold Rifleman Low rings modified to mount directly to the receiver with a 1" tube in place of a scope...



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Here are the rings screwed to the receiver...screws have not been recessed/trimmed...I need to drill and tap a new hole for a two screw mount on the rear ring...then fine tune the lapping until it's all perfect including gross elevation and windage centering the scope's adjustment hopefully at 100 yard zero...



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All the tuning and getting the final fitment will take a while...
 

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ZommyGun, Looks like an exercise in futility to me. Bullet drop does not change with scope height, however trajectory does. Although it is true ... the closer the scope is to bore line, the better trajectory will track up close, it is also true ... the trajectory beyond the sight in distance will shoot much lower.

When a scope is mounted excessively high, (think see-through rings where the center of the scope is mounted 2" above bore line) close up shots are going to hit too low. When a scope is mounted at a normal height (1.5" above bore line), close up shots won't be quite as low and distant shots will also be closer to sight line (best compromise). When scopes are mounted very low (1" above bore line) the trajectory for close up shots will be much better but distant shots will drop well below the line of sight.

In other words, mounting a scope as low as possible will improve the trajectory from the muzzle to the sight-in distance but is counter productive for any shot beyond sight in distance. In the below chart, if you extend the sight in distance from 50 to 75 yards, the bullet path in the middle will be way higher than line of sight, which is also counterproductive for a 22 LR.

What happens is ... the muzzle must be pointed slightly upward so the bullet will rise and intersect the line of sight at the zero-in distance. The lower the scope is mounted the less the bullet moves upward. Although this is good at closer distances (flatter trajectory), you end up paying for it at longer distances (more radical trajectory).

I have included a Ballistics Explorer trajectory chart for a 22 LR (rifle) with the same exact 40 grain bullets rated at 1250 fps and zeroed at 50 yards. The only difference in the three traces is the scope height. As you can see, the lowest mount (1") is better up close and the highest mount (2") is better at a distance whereas the best compromise for both close and distant shots is a medium mount (1.5").

Another factor is the gun's stock. If the drop in the stock is too low, you have to raise your head too high to get a good sight picture (full view, no black areas). With a straighter stock (typical for a 10/22) you can still get a good sight picture with a higher mounted scope, yet maintain a good cheek weld. Of course with a high mount, you will strain to find a good sight picture.

I guess it all boils down to what distances you plan to shoot. If you shoot primarily at 25~50 yards, then a low scope mount is better. If you shoot at distances from 35~75 yards, which is the typical distance for a 22 LR, then a medium scope height is better.

 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for information...I appreciate the input...however...doing what I like to do is by no means an exercise in futility even if it doesn't yield the results I would like it to...

Ballistics and theories not with standing...If you look at the first post you will see that I started out higher and with a factory stock...in fact before the picture of that 40mm scope with low rings...it was 3/8" higher than that picture...

In short...I hated it for a lot of reasons including height...the 40mm mounted as low as possible was a HUGE improvement...

The last picture with the 28mm scope mounted really low so far is definitely best...and since my eye level is still below the center of that height scope with the cheek rest set where I like it...I fully expect to like the new lowest mounting even better...of course, until its done...I won't know that for a fact...

It's a long post to explain everything why I like what I like so forgive me time is short and I have posted it all several times over...don't have time or energy to thru it all now but will try to include it all later for reference for anyone who cares... :D

If it turns out that 100 yard accuracy suffers a lot because of low mounts I suppose I will just not use it for that...it's not important enough to me to have a high mount scope...

Thanks again for the information...very interesting and I will certainly take it under advisement...
 

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ZommyGun, I understand your logic (I think). Experimenting is great fun and you learn first hand information ... not just some opinion by others. I just wanted to dispel another one of those "urban gun myths" that we so frequently see on the Internet .... meaning "the lower the scope mount, the better the trajectory." Fact is ... neither a low or high mount is "best" for all shooting distances. What you gain on one end, you always lose on the other so you have to figure out your shooting priorities and stock considerations for eye alignment then go with what serves you best.

Been there ... done that myself and concluded there really isn't enough difference in trajectory to warrant jumping through hoops. My approach is very simple ... buy the rings and base that make the front lens bell clear the barrel far enough to use a protective lens cap. For a 22 LR, the rest pretty much takes care of itself.

I would never use "see-through" or extra tall mounts because of other issues we haven't discussed ... recoil and bolt shock. For 22 LR rifles, recoil is not an issue like with a high power rifle but bolt shock is (semi-autos only). The farther a scope is from bore line, the more recoil or bolt shock will negatively influence the scope. Another topic for a different thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'll get back with later...glad you are interested in sharing information...can't tell you how much I respect that... :D

For now...work in progress... :D

.022" clearance to barrel....016" clearance to power knob to receiver... .067" clearance scope center to receiver...working out great...need to lap for better fitment...trim screw length to clear bolt...test fire...then do final lapping and seating...



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