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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys, I have a MKIII Competition model that fails to reset every 5th round or so.

This is a gun I use for .22 Bullseye matches. It has a Volquartsen trigger, with stock sear, and a hammer bushing installed. I tuned the sear myself a few years ago for a <2lb trigger.

It shot flawlessly for about 5000 rounds but when I took it out last week to get ready for winter season I couldn't get through a mag without issues. Every 5th round or so the trigger would fail to reset. I field stripped and gave it a good cleaning but the problem persisted. After checking the usual suspects I'm at a loss.

I ordered a new Volquartsen sear to see if that makes any difference.

If anyone has a suggestion I would certainly welcome it.

Thanks.
 

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Check the disconnector bar/receiver wall for roughness or burrs. That can be just enough to cause the trigger to hesitate when resetting.

If you used the VQ disconnector spring, that can sometimes be too light in some guns for reliable operation. I usually stay with the factory spring when installing a VQ trigger for the sake of reliability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Check the disconnector bar/receiver wall for roughness or burrs. That can be just enough to cause the trigger to hesitate when resetting.

If you used the VQ disconnector spring, that can sometimes be too light in some guns for reliable operation. I usually stay with the factory spring when installing a VQ trigger for the sake of reliability.
Thanks for the response. The disconnecter hanging up was my first thought. It was de-burred and polished when the trigger was installed and I inspected it when cleaning. I have the Volquartsen trigger only, not the kit with replacement springs.
 

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What hammer bushing are you using? A sloppy fitting bushing can cause a bit of wobble the sear and hammer contact.

Should also talk ammo. If you are using the low velocity stuff, a round or two in a batch can be underpowered enough not to fully cycle the bolt.
 

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Back out the pretravel screw about 1/4 turn and that should do the trick. You must have it set just a hair too close for consistent disconnector reset while sustained firing. Be sure to apply some thread locking sealant back to the screw or it will change settings on you during live firing.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Back out the pretravel screw about 1/4 turn and that should do the trick. You must have it set just a hair too close for consistent disconnector reset while sustained firing. Be sure to apply some thread locking sealant back to the screw or it will change settings on you during live firing.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
That was the first thing I did. No joy. It's strange how it never had a single issue with all those thousands of rounds and now after sitting for a few months I can't get through five rounds without a failure.

My thought was that perhaps the sear is worn and it doesn't always catch the hammer??
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What hammer bushing are you using? A sloppy fitting bushing can cause a bit of wobble the sear and hammer contact.

Should also talk ammo. If you are using the low velocity stuff, a round or two in a batch can be underpowered enough not to fully cycle the bolt.
I shoot CCI standard pretty much exclusively through this gun. I did try some Rem golden bullets after I started having issues though. No change.

Pretty sure the hammer bushing is Tandemkross. Not 100% though. I have a few MKs and have done a few for friends, not sure which one has what.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So, I was comparing my MKs and I noticed that the bushing in the Competition model has a larger diameter than the one in my 22/45 and the sear actually makes contact with the bushing. Also, now that I see it, I think that's a Volquartsen bushing.

I could see this possibly interfering with the sear/hammer connection but, again, it's been set up like this for years with thousands of rounds through it and never even a hick-up. In three years I don't think I shot a single alibi with this gun.

Very frustrating. I can't compete until I get this straightened out and I've missed two nights already.

 

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That VQ bushing should be fine. What I see is that the disconnector appears to be pushed all the way over against the frame and this may be causing the hang-up. Any dirt or grit behind the lever will add drag and that, plus a bit of residue in the return plunger hole can easily overpower the tension of the small return spring plunger in the trigger. Difficult to tell from the picture but that sear face appears a bit wider than the other one too, which also could be forcing the disconnector lever over to the side.

R,
Bullseye
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
That VQ bushing should be fine. What I see is that the disconnector appears to be pushed all the way over against the frame and this may be causing the hang-up. Any dirt or grit behind the lever will add drag and that, plus a bit of residue in the return plunger hole can easily overpower the tension of the small return spring plunger in the trigger. Difficult to tell from the picture but that sear face appears a bit wider than the other one too, which also could be forcing the disconnector lever over to the side.

R,
Bullseye
Bullseye,
Thanks for the input. I will take a closer look at the disconnector when I get home tonight. The sear does appear wider in the pic, I'll take a closer look at that too. But again, it was flawless for years and untouched before the issue so, other then it being dirty, I have to think either something has worn out or broken. I don't see anything broken, which leaves me with worn parts?? Sear or plunger spring perhaps?
 

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Back out the pretravel screw about 1/4 turn and that should do the trick. You must have it set just a hair too close for consistent disconnector reset while sustained firing. Be sure to apply some thread locking sealant back to the screw or it will change settings on you during live firing.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
I had the same issue and this resolved it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I had the same issue and this resolved it.
Adjusting the trigger was the first thing I attempted.

I also checked the disconnector real quick when I got home today. The plunger spring feels good and the disconnector snaps back up when pressure is released. Even if I try to push the sear and hammer bushing against it, it pops right up with no resistance.

Although I gave it a good cleaning, I only field stripped and cleaned before. I'm going to tear it down tonight and give it a complete bath and inspection. Maybe there's something in there gumming up the works that I don't see.

I have a new VQ sear on the way as well just in case. I'll see what I can see tonight, test it out tomorrow (hopefully), and then if I need to, I'll swap out the sear on Sat and head back Sunday to test it out.

Hopefully I get it resolved before Tues so I can shoot a few relays.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Check the disconnector bar/receiver wall for roughness or burrs. That can be just enough to cause the trigger to hesitate when resetting.

If you used the VQ disconnector spring, that can sometimes be too light in some guns for reliable operation. I usually stay with the factory spring when installing a VQ trigger for the sake of reliability.
I know I said earlier that I didn't use the VQ springs but I'm not so sure. I'll have to check the little parts baggy. I keep all my extra gun parts segregated so Ill be able to see exactly what came out of it. But I don't really think the issue lies there.

I've been thinking about this a lot. While at the range my only possible fix was to adjust the trigger. Every time I did I would get through a few rounds and think it was good and then it would fail again. I was dropping mags and racking the bolt every 30 seconds. (So i may have forgotten a few details in my frustration). I always use the sling shot method but, at some point, I used the slide stop to release it and experienced a slam fire.

This would lead me to believe that the hammer/sear didn't catch? If the bolt was short stroking for some reason is it possible for the bolt to go back far enough to lock open but not enough to reset the hammer? I don't really think that's the issue either though since the gun was cleaned and I tried different ammo. I'm just grasping at straws here.
 

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Is that pretravel Allen screw re-thread locked with sealant after you adjust it? This sounds awfully a lot like the screw is moving under recoil forces and changing the setting. It doesn't take very much movement to cause the symptoms you've described, especially if you have the pretravel set very close to the trigger take-up point. That sealant also needs plenty of time to cure, 24 hours is a good span for thorough sealing.

If the hammer is not getting set on the sear then your sear spring may be out of alignment causing a weak return tension. This would mess with the timing of the pistol and could also cause the symptom of not resetting the disconnector since the sear has a slot cut into it that captures the disconnector lever until the sear is fully rearward and the bolt is closed all the way to allow the lever to rise upward. To check the spring you have to remove the sear and look at the spring, it should be aligned in a straight line with the lower leg of the spring. Sometimes folks rotate the sear too far forward during reassembly and this causes the spring to get bent out of alignment. Also, not allowing the trigger to return all the way forward to the front most position in between shots could also cause a similar issue; you're not riding your finger on the trigger during sustained fire are you?

R,
Bullseye
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Is that pretravel Allen screw re-thread locked with sealant after you adjust it? This sounds awfully a lot like the screw is moving under recoil forces and changing the setting. It doesn't take very much movement to cause the symptoms you've described, especially if you have the pretravel set very close to the trigger take-up point. That sealant also needs plenty of time to cure, 24 hours is a good span for thorough sealing.

If the hammer is not getting set on the sear then your sear spring may be out of alignment causing a weak return tension. This would mess with the timing of the pistol and could also cause the symptom of not resetting the disconnector since the sear has a slot cut into it that captures the disconnector lever until the sear is fully rearward and the bolt is closed all the way to allow the lever to rise upward. To check the spring you have to remove the sear and look at the spring, it should be aligned in a straight line with the lower leg of the spring. Sometimes folks rotate the sear too far forward during reassembly and this causes the spring to get bent out of alignment. Also, not allowing the trigger to return all the way forward to the front most position in between shots could also cause a similar issue; you're not riding your finger on the trigger during sustained fire are you?

R,
Bullseye
Thank you for all the suggestions.

The pre-travel screw is way out. Trigger is sloppy as can be. It was set with loc-tight originally. Like I said, probably 5000 rounds through it since it was set up without a single issue. Maybe 1500 rounds since the last detail cleaning.

Also, not riding the trigger but, even if you were, the trigger would reset once you release it and allow it to travel forward, wouldn't it?

I'll report back after I take it all apart. Hopefully something stands out.
 

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Also, not riding the trigger but, even if you were, the trigger would reset once you release it and allow it to travel forward, wouldn't it?
Yes, that is exactly how it operates. However, some folks in the heat of competition forget to release the trigger all the way forward and fully reset the trigger.



Here is a picture of the sear springs to see them when properly aligned. Yours is the one on the right. Notice how the legs form a straight line. If your spring is not aligned like this then you must bend it back straight again. If the sear gets overclocked too far forward during reassembly the upper spring leg can get bent forward slightly, causing a decrease in return tension for the sear and thus the timing problem of inconsistently resetting the hammer on the sear.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Yes, that is exactly how it operates. However, some folks in the heat of competition forget to release the trigger all the way forward and fully reset the trigger.



Here is a picture of the sear springs to see them when properly aligned. Yours is the one on the right. Notice how the legs form a straight line. If your spring is not aligned like this then you must bend it back straight again. If the sear gets overclocked too far forward during reassembly the upper spring leg can get bent forward slightly, causing a decrease in return tension for the sear and thus the timing problem of inconsistently resetting the hammer on the sear.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
This wasn't in the heat of competition. I had the pre travel screw backed out and put forward pressure on the trigger to try to reset it thinking it was hanging up.

I'm very mechanical and have a pretty good idea of how the gun works. Normally I can fix most anything myself but this time I'm a bit perplexed, which is why I'm asking for some help.

Anyway, nothing jumped out at me when I disassembled it last night. It wasn't particularly dirty either. The sear spring looks pretty straight. I did swap out the plunger spring in the trigger with the factory spring though. The only thing that grabbed my attention was some scratches on the inside of the disconnector.





I polished the disconnector before re-installing. Hopefully I'll get to the range tonight.
 

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Thanks for the update. As you know I typically get folks with all levels of understanding about the internal operations of these pistols so often I have to work at the basic most level. Those scratches on the inside of the disconnector are highly unusual. Looking at the location of them makes me wonder if the magazine body (lips) aren't striking your disconnector and binding it. The marks appear to be forward of the arc of the sear face. Do any of your mags show unusual wear near the top outer edge? You may want to try removing the receiver and then inserting an empty mag then pushing down the disconnector bar and see if there isn't a clearance issue. That would explain why you cannot find any faulty operation during tear down and inspection but at the range you are getting failures to reset. If the disconnector is hanging up on the mag lip then it could also keep it delayed enough to cause the hammer to inconsistently reset too.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
 

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Upon a second look, I also see some rough edges and burrs around the edges of the disconnector lever's squared bushing hole too. You may need to smooth these out, or chamfer, with a polishing stone. Your trigger return spring doesn't have very much tension, it only adds 4-6 oz. to the trigger pull, and therefore doesn't require very much interference to cause a hang-up. What kind of grips do you have on that Competiton model? Any grip screws that protrude into the magwell causing the top of the magazine to push over toward the right side of the frame? The upper left one would be most likely the one causing any alignment problem.

R,
Bullseye
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Upon a second look, I also see some rough edges and burrs around the edges of the disconnector lever's squared bushing hole too. You may need to smooth these out, or chamfer, with a polishing stone. Your trigger return spring doesn't have very much tension, it only adds 4-6 oz. to the trigger pull, and therefore doesn't require very much interference to cause a hang-up. What kind of grips do you have on that Competiton model? Any grip screws that protrude into the magwell causing the top of the magazine to push over toward the right side of the frame? The upper left one would be most likely the one causing any alignment problem.

R,
Bullseye
Bullseye,

I really appreciate all the replies and suggestion.

I didn't notice the rough edges when I had the gun apart but I saw the same thing as you when looking at the picture. I'll address that later today.

When you mentioned the grips however, you reminded me of a few things. I replaced the grip screws over a year ago with non-Ruger Allen head screws. I was using them with the stock walnut target grips that come with the Competition model without issues all last season. Last spring, after shooting my neighbors MKII Comp, I decided to get packmyr grips like his. I swapped out the grips and put the gun away. That was 5 months ago. I don't think I have shot the gun since then. I completely forgot.

Those grips wrap around the back, so they need to be removed to disassemble the gun. That's why I could never see the issue when I was inspecting it. And when I do dry fire practice the gun has no mag in it, therefore I wouldn't experience the issue there either. I'll bet the combination of those screws and grips is the issue.

As stupid as it is, I really hope that's it. I'll be home later to check it out. Hopefully I'll get back to the range to tonight.

Thanks again.
 
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