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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Picked up another LCP II .22LR and unlike the one I bought a month ago, I was able to very easily hand-load ALL 10 rounds into this mag by hand, load/unload mag six times just to be sure, and the mag lips didn't feel sharp at all to me...

Serial 3807919xx

Cleaned the extractor and area, firing pin and channel, sprayed those with dry lube, polished the ramp and inside the chamber (half a Qtip on the dremel fits perfectly, with Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish, slow speed) and will shoot this weekend.

153428
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It’s not the extractor spring causing the gun not to manually extract a unfired round. IMO the extracting round has to go up and over the next round in the magazine. Unfortunately as the round goes up it slips off the extractor. Enhancing the spring is not going to solve this.
You are correct and now it is a proven FACT.

I found a higher-tension spring that fit, installed it and could feel the 'extractor pressure' was dramatically increased....HOWEVER...it still only pulled the round halfway out with the mag still in. Disappointment all around here.

SO....is an extractor 'redesign' from Ruger necessary? Or different magazines, with a shallower feed angle?
 

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To my knowledge, you haven't fired the first LCP 22 you bought and polished all up. Now you've bought a second one!

Mine was supposed to be in today, but apparently no one was home at my FFL at time of delivery attempt.

It's quite possible it'll still be delivered, fedex has on occasion done that with me at my business, then stopped by a little later when I'm here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
SON OF A BREECH!!

Staring me right in the (breech) face all this time....DOH!!


The REASON the top round is only being pulled out halfway is because there is no 'recessed area' on the breech to prevent the back of the extracted round from being cantilevered up and over the extractor, by the nose of the next round in the magazine...my TX22 has this recessed area, but the LCP II does not, it's a slick wall all the way up the LCP II breech face...wonder if Ruger has redesigned the slide to include this?

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
All the super-reliable Ruger Mark Series bolts have this 'recessed area' for the rim of the case to sit in...why didn't they do it on the LCP II? WHY GOD WHY???


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I WANT THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SCREWED THIS UP!!

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Wow Doc, you’re absolutely right. My SR22 that manually ejects rounds has this area too. What’s up with Ruger with this? It’s obvious this wasn’t a concern for them in the design. But this is unacceptable for a gun marketed for SD for people with lack of strength or ability IMO.
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Okay, the problem we're looking at is extracting unfired rounds with a mag installed resulting in this:



The first guess as to why this happens is magazine springs being too strong. So I used my mark pistol whose bolt has the same feature that gives the extracting round clearance. I couldn't get the bullet in the mag to touch the extracting round until ALL the driving bands plus 1/16" were out of the chamber. This, even while prying the nose of the bullet in the mag upward with a dental pick! The reason the round in the mag can't touch the extracting round can be seen looking at the LCP2 breech block:



The extracting rim sits within the red circle. The yellow line shows all the material that holds the next round down in the mag. The mag is not the problem.

The next guess is Doc's "because there is no 'recessed area' on the breech" guess. This is wrong as well. The sides of the pocket are on the breech block, while the top is on the barrel face. A bit different approach, but WAAAY better than the Mark3 bolt! The LCI cutout on the MK3 bolt leaves only a teeny tiny point of material to hold feeding and extracting rounds. The LCP2 recess is MUCH better. I wouldn't complain about it at all.

The next guess is Rick's "I'll bet it has something to do with the barrel being able to tilt." This may or may not contribute to the problem, but I think the real source of the problem has to lie within the extractor itself not holding the rim firmly. The spring has been suspected, but a stronger spring was not a fix. So what else could it be?

I think Doc provided the smoking gun with this pic:



Compare this extractor with one from my AR7 that uses a similar pivot pin:



Notice the pivot hole is round - just like the pin the extractor pivots around. No problems with it. Sooo....

WHY IS RUGER'S PIVOT HOLE ELONGATED????

I think the extractor is being pulled forward far enough for the extracting, unfired rim to leave the recess and be dropped. That's my guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The next guess is Doc's "because there is no 'recessed area' on the breech" guess. This is wrong as well. The sides of the pocket are on the breech block, while the top is on the barrel face.
"The top is on the barrel face"?? You mean this overhang/barrel hood? -

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As the round is extracted, the rim is pulled back and away from that, there is nothing left to prevent the rim from sliding up the breech face and over the extractor, as the extracted round comes back and is pushed upwards from the nose of the next round below it in the mag.

"I think the extractor is being pulled forward far enough for the extracting, unfired rim to leave the recess and be dropped. That's my guess."

Except the round isn't 'leaving any recess' (there is none on the breech face) and it isn't 'dropping', it's being pushed UP from below as it's pulled back and across the round below it.
 

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I think we can all agree that manually extracting a dud or live round without the mag being inserted works as expected. This of course assumes you use normal effort when racking the slide. I’ve tried going slow to see what happens and have had mixed results. What does yours do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think we can all agree that manually extracting a dud or live round without the mag being inserted works as expected. This of course assumes you use normal effort when racking the slide. I’ve tried going slow to see what happens and have had mixed results. What does yours do?
But it doesn't work as expected. With the mag removed, the round STILL does not eject out the side like it should, it barely makes it out of the chamber and then weakly drops down through the magwell.

This thing's a joke. Ruger needs to issue a recall. 'Confidence Achieved'....my ass.
 

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Doc Holliday said:
As the round is extracted, the rim is pulled back and away from that, there is nothing left to prevent the rim from sliding up the breech face and over the extractor, as the extracted round comes back and is pushed upwards from the nose of the next round below it in the mag.
That's a good theory, but how is the round in the mag able to get past the material I showed in yellow in order to push up on the extracting round? I can't even pry the nose of the bullet in the mag hard enough for that to happen. The bullet in the mag doesn't even start to lift until the extracting round is MUCH further back than what's shown in the first pic. The rim needs to be back by the rear feed lip before the round in the mag starts to lift at all. The pic shows extraction stopped with the rim still by the front feed lip.

"I think the extractor is being pulled forward far enough for the extracting, unfired rim to leave the recess and be dropped. That's my guess."

Except the round isn't 'leaving any recess' (there is none on the breech face) and it isn't 'dropping', it's being pushed UP from below as it's pulled back and across the round below it.
Again, look at the first pic. How is the extracting rim supposed to be lifted over the extractor? The entire bullet, and part of the brass is still in the chamber! Are the cases made of soft rubber or something?

The recess wall is vertical instead of round, and is just to the right of the red circle in the second pic. Now, the wall should be nice and square, but I can't tell if it is from the pic. If it's not - that's part of the problem too. Make sure powder residue isn't just packed in the corner - having the same effect as a (defectively) rounded wall.

Please check your extractor for frontward/backward play because of the elongated hole.

Front/back play is how I measure the need to replace my Mark pistol extractors. They don't pivot on a pin like the LCP extractor. They have a squared piece that sits in a round hole. That causes the squared edges to gall away over time - increasing front/back play and reducing reliable extraction/ejection. Minimal front/back play = reliable function.

The first step to fixing the problem is correct identification of the cause.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's a good theory, but how is the round in the mag able to get past the material I showed in yellow in order to push up on the extracting round? I can't even pry the nose of the bullet in the mag hard enough for that to happen. The bullet in the mag doesn't even start to lift until the extracting round is MUCH further back than what's shown in the first pic. The rim needs to be back by the rear feed lip before the round in the mag starts to lift at all. The pic shows extraction stopped with the rim still by the front feed lip.



Again, look at the first pic. How is the extracting rim supposed to be lifted over the extractor? The entire bullet, and part of the brass is still in the chamber! Are the cases made of soft rubber or something?

The recess wall is vertical instead of round, and is just to the right of the red circle in the second pic. Now, the wall should be nice and square, but I can't tell if it is from the pic. If it's not - that's part of the problem too. Make sure powder residue isn't just packed in the corner - having the same effect as a (defectively) rounded wall.

Please check your extractor for frontward/backward play because of the elongated hole.

Front/back play is how I measure the need to replace my Mark pistol extractors. They don't pivot on a pin like the LCP extractor. They have a squared piece that sits in a round hole. That causes the squared edges to gall away over time - increasing front/back play and reducing reliable extraction/ejection. Minimal front/back play = reliable function.

The first step to fixing the problem is correct identification of the cause.
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Okay....here's a pic of slide being pulled back...as the slide goes back, the nose of the next round in the magazine is pushing up on the round being ejected, causing it to slide up past the extractor. Do you see the contact there? Because of the steep upward feed angle of the magazine, the nose of the next round is ALREADY PAST THE BOTTOM OF THE SLIDE and is able to push the ejecting round UP. Here you can see the ejecting round is already being pushed up, the further you extract it, the more it will be pushed up at an increasing angle, until it finally pops up high enough to get past the extractor.
 

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Thanks for that pic Doc. It sure does look like it would be better if Ruger had left a vertical stop recess above the rim.

However, I still have to wonder if adjusting the rear feed lips on the mag wouldn't be enough to keep the top round from pushing up on the extracting round. That would be a simple fix if it does. Otherwise, the barrel tab and the breech block would both need modded.

Also, I still think your extractor isn't holding the rim very well. Otherwise, your extraction/ejection would be fine with the mag removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Also, I still think your extractor isn't holding the rim very well. Otherwise, your extraction/ejection would be fine with the mag removed.
Agreed....when the round is ejected with the mag removed, the round barely dribbles out of the chamber and simply falls down the magwell. There is definitely more than just one area of concern Ruger needs to address with this model.

Mines going back, along with a very detailed explanation. I'll see what they have to say.
 
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