Ruger Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everybody.

I just picked up a Lee Classic loader and all the goodies I needs to start reloading. The problem is, I have H110 powder. Now, the loader comes with one of those dippers in the ".7" version. Lee says that is the equivalent of 10.70 grains of H110 per dip.

Now, the Hodgon site doesn't list 225 grain slugs, which is what I have. In the normal loading guide, they don't show H110 powder at all. It does show up for the Ruger only loads, for 27.2 grains of powder to push a 240 grain slug and 25.7 grains of powder to push a 250 grain slug.

Now, if I used 2 dips of H110, that would be 21.4 grains of powder. With a lighter load like the 225 grain and a powder charge of 21.4 grains, I wouldn't think that I would be generating much in the way of pressure, especially for a Blackhawk.

Would this result in a light load, maybe? I dunno. Thoughts?

Oh, and this is just for target shooting at the range.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,583 Posts
Do you not have a scale? You must be very careful with H110 powder in particular. Under loaded rounds with this powder are almost as bad as over loaded rounds, I have read. You might be better off buying another powder just for target shooting. Unique is much more forgiving. Those powder dippers (I assume that is what you are talking about) that Lee has are not the best thing to use. They are OK, and I used them when I first started reloading. But their published weights and what they actually throw are not always the same. You really, really need to buy a powder scale if you don't have one. And buy several load books too.
 

·
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
Joined
·
16,413 Posts
You're looking to get yourself in a heap of trouble. STOP. Go buy a good reloading manual (Speer #14 would be nice) and a scale. Even the cheap Lee scale will work quite well. Forget the dippers and weigh each powder charge to match the book loads. Bullet weights do weird things to burn rates. Generally, you need more powder with a lighter bullet than with a heavier bullet to prevent squibs and excessive chamber pressure.

You didn't specify the cartridge but it looks like a 44 Mag. You also didn't specify if the bullet was lead or jacketed. It can make a big difference! The Speer manual warns you not to reduce the charge below the listed loads. For a lead 225 gr bullet, that would be XX gr. For a jacketed 225 gr bullet, minimum would be XX gr.

Edited to add: I responded to this post without knowing all the details and gave potentially dangerous information. I x-ed out the numbers. See my next post. My bad!!
 

·
Forum Founder
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
I agree with Gunman. Regular beam scales aren't very expensive and are a must when reloading. After you use measuring spoons or powder throwers, still need scales to check every few rounds to make sure you are getting them accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys. I figured that might be the case. When my mom and dad moved they packed up all the reloading stuff and put it somewhere safe. So safe, in fact, well, you know how it goes.

I did leave out the caliber, as well. It is for .45 Colt. I'll have to stop on the way home from work tomorrow and see if I can pick up a decent scale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,428 Posts
I have a set of those Lee dippers. They don't hold what the chart tells you they do. At least not with Unique. I use a Lee scale and weigh every charge. Better safe than sorry. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, that's what I am going to do. I also need to add that these are lead slugs, not jacketed. The place where I bought the powder didn't have Unique, at least at that time. I'll have to check them out. I know they had some Universal, which guides I have found show as needing 9 grains universal for a 225 grain lead roundnose (I have SWC slugs).
 

·
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
Joined
·
16,413 Posts
Darkness, 45 Colt ... lead bullets .... that changes the equation a lot. The Speer #13 manual doesn't list a single load for H-110 and a 225 gr bullet so forget what I posted above.

Next time you have a reloading question, please state the cartridge, bullet weight, lead or jacketed, and the brand/model of gun you plan to shoot the loads in. It could mean the difference in life or death. In the above case, I gave you info for the wrong cartridge and if you loaded even the minimum charge of H-110, it would be way over pressure for standard 45 Colt / clone rated guns. Bad lesson learned for me. I will edit my post.

I will also edit the disclaimer in the sticky post at the top of this forum. Please read it!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ok, Iowegan. I read the disclaimer, and just to round out the info;

I have 225 grain SWC lead bullets, regular large pistol primers, loading for range use and will be shooting with an early 70's vintage New Model Blackhawk.

Thanks for the info. I really don't want to cause problems, which is why I thought I'd better ask before I even attempted the first cartridge. :D
 

·
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
Joined
·
16,413 Posts
Darkness, Thanks for the info ... now we can proceed at a safe pace. It scares me when a new reloader starts the process. They get both good and bad advise. I regret giving you bad advise so let's start over.

Looks like you have everything you need except powder. H-110 is just not well suited for 45 Colt range loads. It requires magnum primers too. Besides a scale, buy a pound of one of the following: Unique, AA#5, or HS-6. These three powder work really well in 45 Colt loads (800-950 fps). Your 225 gr bullets will work and so will your primers.

Unique powder 7.8 to 8.5 grains (800-850 fps)
AA#5 powder 10.2 to 11.2 grains (825-925 fps)
HS-6 10.5 to 11.5 grains (900 to 950 fps)

I have personally tested these loads. If your lead bullets are a nice soft alloy, accuracy with any of the above will be quite good. Hard cast bullets will tend to foul badly and will diminish accuracy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,156 Posts
if you choose to stay with the dippers, you can order complete set of them for around $10. That will give you a bit more flexability in powders and loads.
I still use the dippers now and then. They are very precise, and repeatable-(from "dip to dip")-but the charge will more than likely be lower than listed in the chart--problem is you really need a scale to know exactly what your dipper is doing. The charts for them are ballpark due to a lot of factors. The volume measure will be on the low end to take into account variables.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
With the shortage of 45 Colt choices around here, I decided on Federal Champion cartriges for self-defense carry. These are 225 grain semi-wadcutter hollowpoints, without a jacket, with a muzzle velocity of 830. Ideally, I would like to mimic those stats as closely as possible so I can do copious amounts of practice without having to spend the cash on the brand name.

The slugs I picked up are manufactured by Tony Vance in Toledo, Ohio. They are .451 diameter SWC. According to one web resource, they claim "We use a pre-mixed alloy of 6% Antimony, 4% Tin". And another source in that same thread says:

"The metal content will give you about 17 BHN, however, many commercial casters water quench their product which would result in something around 22 BHN."

So that's the lowdown on the slugs.

The range / supply store I frequent seems to carry the Hogdon stuff, so chances are good that I'll be able to pick up some HS-6. I'll hang onto the H110 for when I start reloading my .357 mag.
 

·
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
Joined
·
16,413 Posts
Darkness, Gee, I sure wish you would have checked here before spending money. Those bullets will work fine in a 45 ACP semi-auto pistol where hardness is not an issue. In any revolver shooting lead bullets, you must match the chamber pressure to the hardness of the bullet. The formula is BHN=chamber pressure divided by 1400. That load with the 225 gr SWCs is very low pressure. (14,000 is max for a SAAMI standard load) and according to my QuickLOAD software, will run about 10,000 psi. Using the formula, your hardness should be down around BHN 7. Your hard bullets are going to foul badly. Additionally, they are undersized and should be at least .452".

45 Colts are the most difficult loads to make that will be accurate and not leave excessive fouling. Once you find the right combination, mouse ear accuracy is achievable. I discovered Hornady swaged lead bullets in .454" LRNFT 255 gr with a BHN of 10. I load them to the factory pressure limit using 8 to 8.5 gr of Unique. They are extremely accurate in all my 45 Colt guns and don't leave much more than a trace of fouling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Whew. Ok. Thanks for all the info. Still, not a waste of money, as I also have a P345 that I plan to get around to reloading for. Ok, so far I have powder for the .357 and slugs for the .45 ACP. I'll have to scrounge around at the shop and see just what they have available, write it down, and then ask here before I buy!

As far as jacketed slugs go, whole new ballgame, right? I may end up getting some jacketed bullets if they don't have anything softer in the lead. I'll be looking for .452" diameter, and possibly in the 250 grain or there-abouts. I'll get this up and running yet.
 

·
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
Joined
·
16,413 Posts
Darkness, Jacketed bullets behave quite differently in a revolver. They are way too hard to obturate (reshape under pressure to seal in the throat and bore) so forget the BHN and formulas. Personally, I like the traditional RNFT lead bullets but I must admit, despite being more expensive, jacketed bullets are a lot easier to work with in all respects. If you consider factory ammo prices, even jacketed bullets are a bargan for reloading.

Try to find some .451" jacketed bullets in the 250-260 grain range. Again, Unique, AA#5, and HS-6 are great powders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Thanks for all the info, Iowegan. Unfortunately, the place I go to does not have any of those powders, believe it or not.

How about 255 grain semi-wadcutter lead slug measuring .452" and Universal Clay powder? They only had 38/357 and 40/10mm in jacketed bullets, and no reloading manuals that I could find. Seems like they really don't care much about the reloader.

Hodgdon shows that a 260 grain slug would use a starting load of 7 grains of Universal for 661 fps and 9,400 CUP, with a max of 8 grains for 813 fps and 14,000 CUP.

I know... I need to find another source for my powder and what-not. I haven't purchased a new powder yet, want to make sure I get something that works.

New info:
According to reloadammo.com, 250-255 grain lead round-nose flat point can use 7.8 grains of Universal to achieve 941 fps.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top