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If I get stopped I roll my window down get my Drivers license and LTC out have them in my left hand with both hands on the steering wheel and wait for instructions. I don't say a word unless I need to.[/QUOTE

+1. Good way to handle it. When I made traffic stops and was informed the driver was armed, I would instruct him to keep his hands on the steering wheel and inform me where the weapons was in the vehicle. During my initial contact with the driver a backup unit would arrive and I would have them watch the driver while I ran a license and wants/warrants check. If the license was ok and there were no outstanding warrants on the driver I would either issue a citation for violation or if it was something minor, a verbal warning. I felt it was safer to have the driver leave the weapon where it was rather that handling it. Out dispatchers were very good about running the vehicle tag we gave and would advise us if there was anything suspicious or wants on the tag or owner before we made the stop.
I would've thought that officers would prefer that hands stay in sight until they can approach the vehicle and then have the individual vocalize that they have a firearm on themselves, the location, and note that they have a CCL? My dilemma would be that I carry a wallet in my left front pocket and my firearm is at 2 o'clock usually. To access either I'd have to unlatch the seatbelt which could be a potential issue.
 

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There's been a definite cultural change in America and within the Law Enforcement community. I strongly support the LE and have many family and friends within it, but the younger police definitely has some new views when it comes to firearms and carrying.
 

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5 pages I'm still trying to figure out why you surrendered your pistol.....

We as 'conservatives' or 'gun-people' seem to give the police force an absolute crap ton of leeway.
 

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I would've thought that officers would prefer that hands stay in sight until they can approach the vehicle and then have the individual vocalize that they have a firearm on themselves, the location, and note that they have a CCL? My dilemma would be that I carry a wallet in my left front pocket and my firearm is at 2 o'clock usually. To access either I'd have to unlatch the seatbelt which could be a potential issue.
Wallet in L front pocket--carry at 2 o'clock.......a bit of a sticky wicket, I would say.
 

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5 pages I'm still trying to figure out why you surrendered your pistol.....

We as 'conservatives' or 'gun-people' seem to give the police force an absolute crap ton of leeway.
Because if he hadn't, the officer would most likely have drawn on him, finger on the trigger, and screaming at him. It's not worth getting shot over by some trigger-happy cop.

OP lived to tell us his story - and that makes it a happy ending any way you look at it.
 

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Something I find curious is this: a lot of people seem to think that LE or military are the only ones "qualified" to carry, because somehow they think that LE and military have all this specialized training. Far from the case. Believe me, I have seen enough of them shoot that as a whole I am not impressed.

With regard to OP, who did the cop think he was to lecture him? Who is anybody to lecture any of us who lawfully carry? If the people who lecture us are strangers, they have no idea who we are or what walk of life we come from.

There are tons of us out there who are former Spec Ops soldiers and sailors, competition gunners, or enthusiasts in general who take pride in our marksmanship ability. LE should not give us short shrift just because we are civilians. As I said, they have no idea our background or our level of skill when they encounter us.
 

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Something I find curious is this: a lot of people seem to think that LE or military are the only ones "qualified" to carry, because somehow they think that LE and military have all this specialized training. Far from the case. Believe me, I have seen enough of them shoot that as a whole I am not impressed.

With regard to OP, who did the cop think he was to lecture him? Who is anybody to lecture any of us who lawfully carry? If the people who lecture us are strangers, they have no idea who we are or what walk of life we come from.

There are tons of us out there who are former Spec Ops soldiers and sailors, competition gunners, or enthusiasts in general who take pride in our marksmanship ability. LE should not give us short shrift just because we are civilians. As I said, they have no idea our background or our level of skill when they encounter us.
Man, I could not agree with that statement more. My God, I have seen some cops that I really wonder how the heck did they even pass a basic marksmenship qualification. I have talked to many, have a few friends that are cops and the lack of knowledge about firearms is staggering.
I was in the Military and live in a Military town. For some stupid reason, people think all military have special training. Hell, most look like they have never shot a pistol in their life.

I wonder what that cop that does not believe in Civilians having a right to protect themselves would say if someone said to him. I believe Cops should only carry Nigh Sticks like in some other countries?

The smugness of some of cops that say this are down right disgusting.

That said, I do have the highest regard for our Police. But like any Profession, there are jerks in all all of them. And there may come a time, when a honest civilian with a License to carry, actually saves his *** some day.
Mr. Policeman, please focus on the Bad Guys and let the honest man have the ability to protect himself and his family. No one should have to die or watch a familiy member die, because they did not have protection. All because some Politician or Cop, had the most stupid belief that they can actually be at a scene before the bad guy pullls the trigger. I guess this is where my anger come in. They know darn well, they cannot be there and they would have you and your family die before giving you the right for protection.
 

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Driving around locally doesn't concern me. It is when I go out of state that a traffic stop scares me. I was driving in SC once on the interstate and a patrol car pulls along side me for no reason and stays there for a couple miles. I can only guess he knew from my plate I had a CCL and was running my plate for a reason to stop me. Maybe not. I try to study all the different state laws I will be traveling through but you never know what county or city ordinance you may be breaking or a anti gun District Att. or police chief ruling the area. The anti states I avoid if possible but when I can't, I unload, separate ammo and mags, lock up in the trunk, and still feel vulnerable. I can understand a cop's perspective , not knowing who he is dealing with, it can't be easy. Especially at night.
 

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I would've thought that officers would prefer that hands stay in sight until they can approach the vehicle and then have the individual vocalize that they have a firearm on themselves, the location, and note that they have a CCL? My dilemma would be that I carry a wallet in my left front pocket and my firearm is at 2 o'clock usually. To access either I'd have to unlatch the seatbelt which could be a potential issue.
One of the few (maybe only) times I was stopped while carrying, I kept my hands on the wheel and when the LEO asked for my license, I said "My license and CCW permit are in my billfold, left hip pocket, my weapon is holstered on my right hip. What do you want me to do, sir?" He said, "Thank you" and we had a very civilized exchange as he told me how to proceed.

I do NOT want to be reaching around for a billfold and have a LEO unexpectedly see a firearm while I'm twisting around in my car seat!
 

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One of the few (maybe only) times I was stopped while carrying, I kept my hands on the wheel and when the LEO asked for my license, I said "My license and CCW permit are in my billfold, left hip pocket, my weapon is holstered on my right hip. What do you want me to do, sir?" He said, "Thank you" and we had a very civilized exchange as he told me how to proceed.

I do NOT want to be reaching around for a billfold and have a LEO unexpectedly see a firearm while I'm twisting around in my car seat!
Most state police officers I have known, in several states, prefer to see the driver with his hands on the steering wheel and the keys on top of the dash as he approaches the vehicle. The majority of them stated that a driver moving around and obviously reaching for things raises a big red flag. The driver in these cases is likely to be looking at the muzzle of the officer's weapon until the situation is sorted out, especially if the officer is alone.
 

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NJ unlawful AG

The state of NJ and NY consistently violate the federal law on concealed carry for retired and off duty out of state police. It's not just civilian CCW They also lose every case in court and have payed millions in lawsuits. They are under investigation for those actions along with the State of HI.
 

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The state of NJ and NY consistently violate the federal law on concealed carry for retired and off duty out of state police. It's not just civilian CCW They also lose every case in court and have payed millions in lawsuits. They are under investigation for those actions along with the State of HI.
But they NEVER LEARN, as they keep doing it! It will take a federal prosecution to have any impact!
 

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Having the feds go after the states or other jurisdictions is aiming too low. The feds are just as guilty. The only thing that might make a difference is if whoever is the responsible individual is held accountable. When they lose a case they don't get to say "Ooops!" and hand over a bunch of tax-payer money. I has to cost them, personally.
 

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This thread title is the understatement of the century!! When my home state
legislature first passed enabling legislation for legal CCW, our state head of
the State Police, a former roommate and Democrat sorority sister of our then
governor's wife simply refused to process ANY applications with NO reason
given but the creature would take your money of course. It took someone
to bring suit against her in Federal court to force her to begin issuing them.
Soon after she lost the suit, the legislature amended the enabling legislation
to read SHALL ISSUE instead of MAY ISSUE. Shortly after that the governor
lost his re election bid and she went out the door with him along with the
rest of the rubbish. At least now we have a sympathetic governor and Lt.
Governor but we still have an indescribably bad state Attorney General
who makes a point of issuing very vague and often contradictory "opinions"
on any CCW or firearms related issues to muddy the legal waters probably,
and yes, he's a Dimwit of course.
 

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I agree with the title of this thread. Not all of us are in favor of CCW.














I'm in favor of CCW AND open carry, constitutional carry.....if you're not a prohibited person (ie: bad guy or otherwise dangerous around deadly devices) ........... the damn it you should be carrying if you so choose!

Unfortunately, not all state governors and legislatures feel that way!:mad:
 

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Heck most police agencies are anti gun all together in my opinion. Just have a legally owned gun end up there and see if you ever get it back. Even if it is stolen from you.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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In my experience, support for civilian shooters is inversely proportional to the size of the city/department and location.

Smaller departments from rural and suburban areas tend to be more supportive. Big city departments see a criminal behind every gun ... and act accordingly.
 

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I agree with the title of this thread. Not all of us are in favor of CCW.

I'm in favor of CCW AND open carry, constitutional carry.....if you're not a prohibited person (ie: bad guy or otherwise dangerous around deadly devices) ........... the damn it you should be carrying if you so choose!

Unfortunately, not all state governors and legislatures feel that way!:mad:
Glad that you are on-board and that you took your oath seriously but I'm wondering why you chose to become a roadside tax collector for NY?
 

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Glad that you are on-board and that you took your oath seriously but I'm wondering why you chose to become a roadside tax collector for NY?
Starry eyed dreams of a 10y/o in the late '70s. Always felt could contribute something to society.....helping folks, catching the bad guy etc. Just like many from the '80s and earlier. Police work was viewed as a positive. Sadly, society and thusly police work and the type of recruit has changed sooo much over 30+ years of doing this job. Back in the day, it was a "calling" or aspiration if you will....now a days seems like many do not come in with the same virtuous values (it's a job, it's bennies, it's a retirement etc.)

Don't get me wrong, not all kids coming in are negative, but the job is a reflection of society.....not always virtuous. that's my $0.02.
 

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My experience has been that LEOs tend to mirror their communities’ values. In places where support for the Second Amendment and CCW is high, the police tend to be supportive as well.

In the Chicago area, where extremely strict anti-gun laws (and anti-gun rhetoric) have been the rule for so long, it’s not surprising that the police are opposed to citizens defending themselves.

I wanted to specifically address the “wanna-be LEO” statement. There are - regrettably - police officers who divide the world into “us” (police) and “them”, with law-abiding citizens lumped in with criminals under “them”. This is more common in liberal cities (like Chicago) where politicians have regularly attacked police as a means to garner votes.

Police officers who have this mindset often see everyone not in police uniform as a potential enemy (and they’re not far wrong in some places), so they resent anyone else being allowed to have guns.

On the other hand, anyone who thinks that a CCW permit gives them the right or duty to intervene in perceived criminal activity is asking for trouble. Courts - especially in more liberal areas - are not going to cut you any slack if you intervene in a situation where you (or friends/family) were not directly threatened with death or serious injury.

As to refusing to disarm if a police officer orders you to - you may, in certain very limited situations, be legally justified in refusing that order, which will no doubt help your next-of-kin when they file a wrongful death lawsuit. However, the best place to argue whether you were given a lawful order by a police officer is in court, not on the street.

Personally, if a police officer ordered me to put my gun on the ground - even if I was in my police uniform- I’d do it and argue my case to his/her supervisors later. You have no idea how wound up or on edge the officer might be - there may be factors you are unaware of. Do what you’re told, no matter how hard it may be to swallow your pride, and save the witty repartee for the courtroom.


Jim
Excellent advice. Also, leaving a gun on the porch was so wrong, put all three of you in potential danger.
 
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