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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well after reading around this forum I decided that I like to keep things clean and clean my rear sight. My rear sight was a little snug, so when I removed to clean under my rear sight part numbers 6 and 7 were under pressure and flew out on their own. I guess it couldn't be easier. ;) Just thought I'd share, Frank.
 

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Ya it's kind of funny how they just seemed to fall into my parts box when I put on the new rear sight that Ruger sent me. I feel much better and trust it lots more now, even though I never had a "Click no Bang" before cleaning.

Robert
 

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All three of you, stop trying to play gun designer and put that spring and plunger back in. You're asking for a jammed firing pin without them. Some peoples kids!!!
 

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Somebody dropped their BB on that one--;) That ****P345 just causes so much trouble!!![^] America was built on better ideas...unstoppable ingenuity, and when someone designs a piece of crap, it's bound to be improved upon...officially or otherwise...Thomas Edison screwed up a few times, too, so it's OK for Ruger to do it...but it's also OK to find a way to work around it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Has there been any reported mechanical or reliability problems reported after the rear sight has been cleaned? Just curious. I took mine to the range after cleaning it and there did not appear to be any problems. Frank.
 

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quote:Originally posted by COFFEE POT

All three of you, stop trying to play gun designer and put that spring and plunger back in. You're asking for a jammed firing pin without them. Some peoples kids!!!
Well this in new information for me. Please elaborate more about the jamming firing pin. This is the 1st negative comment about function problems of a "cleaned" p345. You got my attention!
 

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CoffeePot is it the big hole in the slide that is the problem, after cleaning? Because I don't see any mechanical difference before or after cleaning.
 

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The firing pin block(s) do more than block the firing pin. They also contribute to the proper radial orientation of the firing pin. Without them, in some guns, depending on the tolerance band of the parts, the firing pin can rotate sufficiently to allow the lug at the rear of the firing pin to contact the slot in the safety, thus creating a burr on the firing pin and/or the safety which can result in drag on the firing pin sufficient to cause misfires or even to jam the firing pin. Many parts in these guns perform more than one function and without fully understanding the design criteria of each part it's foolish to think you can just take the simple way out without affecting something else. Put your parts back in and if you have a problem, do what the manual says and contact Ruger. You know they'll take care of it. Remember, their butt is on the line just as much as yours.
 

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Coffee Pot...I have great respect for your experience, Sir, and really appreciate your sharing with us, and I DO think they took you out of the design and manuf. loop too soon...the P90 and P97 are so fantastic...but there is no way that Ruger's butt is on the line as much as those of us who might trust our lives, our family's lives, to a handgun...Ruger can write a check...not hug my kids or be there for my wife to gripe at...or patch up the holes in me if I got a "click, no bang"...being as the problem is in the design, and being as the "fix" may cause another problem rendering the pistol unreliable, I'll continue to take your advice in another post...stay with the P90...well designed and executed and reliable right out of the box, and tell anyone who'll listen to stay away from the P345...it just doesn't match the reliability of the P90...thank you for your patience and I'm convinced completely by your explanation...and I'm boycotting the P345-this is my last word on that model...(cheers and applause noted) Ruger makes so many GREAT guns to talk about...
 

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COFFEE POT, I have personally seen more than a dozen P-345s with the click-no bang syndrome (including my very own) and have heard of lots more on the forums. I haven't seen or heard of a single instance where a P-345 failed after removing the mag disconnect plunger and spring. The channel in the slide dictates the limits for firing pin movement. The only obstruction to those limits are the M/D plunger and the firing pin block. To date, I've not seen or heard of any significant issue with the firing pin block (used in other Ruger P-guns and many other brands as well) so it should remain in the gun. The only time the firing pin block could be struck is if the hammer went forward without the trigger being pulled (ie from dropping, broken sear, or major abuse).

I look at the stats. Many failures with the M/D plunger in place .. no known failures without the M/D plunger in place. I'm sure the plunger hole allows powder residue to get into the firing pin channel but a good cleaning after each shooting session should take care of that.

PS Sold my P-345 bought a SIG P-220 .... no issues of any kind.
 

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Settled,---- just too many questions about the design. Either leave as is and over time a click-no bang could occour, or clean it and face a possibility of a click no bag. Possible failures either way. A recomendation to remove parts designed as a safety feature and increase liability in a shooting, or leave as is and increase the liability to myself as a click no bang. Either way the issue of liability(weapon, not shooter inspired) happens either in court or to life.
345 is off my list. 90% of the design is brilliant--but a weapon that can click no bang after 12 snaps over the service life of the gun (as designed) just won't do.
If i need to go smaller and lighter, i will go with the smith 457.
 

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Iowegan - Just because you haven't seen one or heard of it doesn't mean it can't happen. From the 'P' Series inception starting with the P85, people have been pulling firing pin blocks. The service people see more 'P' Series pistols in one month than you've seen in a lifetime. The evidence is there whether you choose to believe it or not.
 

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COFFEE POT, I see we've taken a tangent. I don't think anyone is suggesting the firing pin block plunger be removed. Quite the opposite, I think it performs a valuable function and should be left in the gun, just as I stated before.

No doubt, since you worked for Ruger, you have seen tons of P-guns with all sorts of alterations, to include firing pin blocks and I definitely believe your comment. I was in the gunsmith business for over 31 years and have seen alterations, modifications, broke, bent, abused, over pressured, etc in about every brand of gun on the market, so I know exactly what you mean.

I don't want anyone to think I'm anti-Ruger. I do own a nice collection of them and plan to buy more. I also call a spade a spade. The P-345 is a problematic pistol. Period. I would never consider buying or recommending one until Ruger redesigns the mag disconnect.

Here's your quote "Put your parts back in and if you have a problem, do what the manual says and contact Ruger. You know they'll take care of it. Remember, their butt is on the line just as much as yours." I did just that and they did not take care of my KP-345PR. It failed when near new and was sent in. A new slide was installed. It failed again and got sent in a second time and internal parts were replaced. It failed a third time. All failures were because of the click-no bang syndrome. I removed the M/D plunger, fired it some, sold it and took a financial beating. In my opinion, you can't fix a bad design by replacing bad parts with bad parts. Don't you think I gave Ruger a fair shot at repairing my P-345? How many time should a gun be sent in? Why didn't Ruger reimberse me for the $60+ I spent on shipping? If I did this poor of service in my shop, I wouldn't have stayed in business a week. Bad experiences are not easily forgotten.
 

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Iowegan - Please don't get the impression that I like the design of the M/D system in the P345 anymore than you do, or that I'm just preaching the 'party line'. It just scares the heck out of me when folks start modifying a firearm to resolve one issue and create another. The design of these pistols, even though people call them simple when they are done, is a very complex and difficult process. The 'man on the street' has absolutely no concept of how these guns work and, meaning no disrespect to you, neither do many gunsmiths. You do the best you can with what information you have or can determine. There isn't a product out there that doesn't have some glitch in it. It's all a learning process. But, I'd be willing to bet that the next semi-auto pistol to come out of Ruger will have a different system to it.
 

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COFFEE POT, Thanks for your "take" on the issue. I'm glad you agree there could be a better design on the next model.

You mentioned gunsmiths so I thought I would bore you with my opinions. Yes, gunsmiths run the spectrum from Bubba the kitchen table guy to well experienced graduates from reputable schools. I attended the Trinidad, CO school back in the early 70's. I was absolutely amazed with the course criteria. We spent 2 full months just on 1911 theory. You had to not only know how the gun worked but why it was designed the way it was. Don't sell the whole gunsmith profession short. There are some sharp guys out there. There's also a fair share of duds too.
 

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You are absolutely right. Unfortunately there is no licensing requirement for gunsmiths to assure they are qualified. As you can imagine, most of my experience was from folks who ended up with the 'Bubba' type and sent us their guns to fix after the 'smith' messed it up. If people are happy with their 'smith' we never heard about it. No reason to, their problem was fixed. I just wish more would attend a good school and learn the trade properly. Trinidad has an excellent reputation for turning out well qualified people. Unfortunately, in the industry, gunsmiths in general are grouped closer to the 'Bubba' type than those that are qualified. There is very little trust among gun manufacturers of the gunsmith community. Too many bad experiences, I imagine.
 
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