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Discussion Starter #1
For years I have heard it said not to carry reloads for CCW. Let's skip the issue that you would need to be as confident in your own reloads as you would be in factory ammo to risk your life on. So it is said the court could use this against you due to saying you brewed up rounds that you thought would be more lethal than factory stuff. I have asked here in N.C. about this issue to two officers and they said they had never heard of such an issue happening in court. Of course I would not want to add any gas to the fire against me in possible court but I wonder how often is this actually happening? Plus, since their are safety issues like over penetration, etc., etc, why could the point be used that Stoble enjoyed the hobby of reloading and found a load that shot more accurate in this gun used in the shooting than common factory ammo? Thus, he carried what matched his gun and was the safest to shoot and hit what he aimed at so others would not be in danger. Shooting the less accurate bullet in public doesn't seem to be a great choice either if you have proof in testing that said load makes a single ragged hole at 10 yards with the SP101.

What say you?
 

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If courtrooms ran on logic, I'd say you'd be on solid ground. They haven't, though, for quite some time.

If you're planning on developing a load that optimizes the performance of your carry weapon, you'll need to establish a significant written record around how this load is actually better than the too-hot factory load, reduces the danger to innocent bystanders, is truly a "magic bullet," and manufacturers are beating a path to your door to discover your secret so they can start selling this marvelous load to the world at large. Even at that, though, I think we're still back at the first paragraph. We live in a stupid age, in many ways, and our courtrooms unfortunately reflect that fact.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So how often is this argument actually happening in real life court? Or is it like Big Foot? That's the animal not the monster truck!
 

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I thought I posted this earlier, but will try again....I would prefer to carry my own loads, but in the event that something happens, I do not want to test the courts in Florida to see if they agree with me....that gets too expensive.....
 

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After a 20+ year career with DOJ, I never once heard of a case where reloads were an issue of any kind with self defense. Yes, it make good reading in a gun rag or a TV show but here's what is needed for a conviction: The type of weapon used or the type of ammo used are only important when establishing intent, not guilt or innocence. Example: if a person intended to go in a shopping center and kill a bunch of people, then the jury might be instructed to consider both the type of weapon and the ammo used. Let's say the shooter chose an AR-15 with high capacity magazines loaded with hollow point ammo. The prosecution could then establish intent or premeditation based on gun and ammo used.

In a self defense shooting, there can clearly be no premeditated intent established for the shooter or he would be charged with murder or assault with a deadly weapon. Once the fact of self defense has been established, guilt or innocence is not an issue and the type of weapon or ammo used makes absolutely no difference. Example: if I were in my own home and someone broke in and threatened my life, in my state, I'm allowed to use deadly force to stop the attack. If the most convenient weapon available was a 12 gauge with #4 Buck, a 44 Mag with 240 gr hollow points, or a 38 with target wadcutters, it really makes no difference. At that point .... a weapon is a weapon and ammo is ammo, neither have anything to do with premeditated intent to shoot the bad guy. Each state law has it's "rules" to establish when deadly force is authorized. If you read them closely, you will see things like .... fear of my life or the life of another, no escape route was available, etc .... but you won't see anything about what weapon can be used (base ball bat, knife, gun, etc). Don't take my word for it ... look for yourself. Each state has it's laws published and available to all citizens .... most are available on the Internet.

I use reloaded ammo in all my guns and will continue to. If you have personal doubts about ammo, then it might be best for you to use factory ammo. Not because of legal issues ..... just for paranoia.
 

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I agree that's horsecrap. If you meant to shoot the person in fear of your life then in the end it should not matter...what might matter is in the case of accidental shooting or over-penetration. I reload my .45 with 200 grams and 5.0 grain of bullseyes but carry factory 230 because of the over penetration and legal issues. I also keep my CCW stock.

Said that I have never heard of a single case where the home re-load was brought into the case. However knowing the little I know about the judicial system why risk it?

My 0.02 is to shoot re-load at the range and carry factory.
 

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This is one of the web rumors that will not die. Mr Iowegan has it right. I too after much research on the subject carry my own reloads. This all got started with a case in the Ayoob files a few years ago. The thing is he just recomended to carry factory ammo and everybody jumped on the band wagon. If your lawyer can't cover that for you, you better get a new lawyer fast. I say carry what ever makes you comfortable.
 

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Iowegan makes a good case for using reloads all the time. If you were being prosecuted, I think it would difficult, indeed, to "prove" that your bullet was intended to be deadlier than any other! And if intent was involved, then you deserve the scrutiny.
 

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Your fate will be in the hands of lawyers and a jury----possibly THREE TIMES.

An honest self-defense shooting where it is cut and dry should never go further than the Grand Jury where you will be indicted or no-billed. If the DA believes this is not self-defense, this is where he can bring up what ever he wants to to sway the grand jury towards an indictment. There will not be a defense attorney present to argue against indictment as this is not a trial.

The other two jurys are the criminal and the civil. If indicted by the Grand Jury, There is the criminal trial. In the criminal, proof of beyond a reasonable doubt must be established. Who knows?????? I've seen a jury get hung up with one hold-out on the jury on a case of obvious guilt. And i've seen a jury convict on cases where i myself have questions still about guilt or innocence and believed surely there would be a hung jury when it wasn't.....

Then the civil aspect---you are being sued. "beyond a reasonable doubt" does not exist here. Only a preponderance of the evidence. I've seen good jurys deny scum a penny. I've also seen jurys assign partial fault in cases and i thought they must be out of their minds.

We are talking about people here. Who would have ever thought McDonalds would get sued for an insane amount and lose over someone spillin' hot coffee in their lap while driving a car?

Look no further than the current political races. We often wonder who in their right mind would support any of the leading canidates for President---but they all have support by the millions. And the obvious issue of the 2A (to us gun lovin' folks) in front of the Sureme Court--but we know it will not be a unamious decision.

From my academy days we were told never to carry reloads. Still believe that to this day. And since that is considered as formal training and probably documented somewhere as such----i sure ain't gonna go against training or dept policy. Could this prior training be brought up in my civilian life when i retire?--probably. I have not taken a ccw/permit course, but the same would apply there. Any documented training/instruction in that course could be brought up later to help or haunt you.
 

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Same as the others here I have heard this argument for years on every gunboard online but never, in any one of the discussions has anyone ever been able to provide a single example of it being an issue in a real court case. I don't worry about it anymore. Sometimes I carry factory, sometimes I carry reloads. The only really valid reason I can see for carrying factory is the factory rounds are probably more reliable than the average reloader's rounds.
 

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I have to agree and the same thing goes for modifying a weapon. Sure there is the chance that in a civil suite some Attorney may try to influence a jury with irreverent information but if that is the case having everything factory is not going to stop them.

Why did you chose to carry a 357 "Magnum" instead of something less powerfully? Do you ever practice shooting targets that simulate killing another person? Why did you use ammunition designed to kill when brand x would have been a better choice. It goes on and on as others have pointed out. Just having a carry permit is going to be used against you.

Look at how many 1911s are out there and how many of them are completely stock? But this augment doesn't seem to apply? If modifying a weapon was as big of a problem as some would lead you to believe there wouldn't be so many companies specializing in tricked out carry pieces.

This doesn't mean that in the event you are put into a situation where you have to use deadly force that you won't end up in court with everything in the book throne at you. I do however believe that in almost all cases these things are not the deciding factor.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks everybody for the replys. No matter where you stood, I enjoy the debate on a subject to hear it all and to stimulate some thinking. Nice to have the freedom to do it so easily in fun. Only in AMERICA!!!
 

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This is a question the never dies. If you want to take the risk of a trial going against you because a jury doesn't understand about reloading, do so. For the purpose of self defense I have not been able to reload to greater accuracy than factory ammo. Out of a 2.25 inch barrel I can not tell any difference, out of a 6.5 inch barrel I can. All I have to hit is a 6 inch circle center of mass.

If I ever have to use my gun in self defence I will have one less thing to worry about at night if I use factory ammo.
 
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