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Discussion Starter #4
i had some berrys 115 fmj loaded up at 4.9 with universal clay with cci 500,win brass,shooting 1224 at 63 degrees.in cooler temp it was lower.went down to 4.7 got it down to 1146 at 63 degrees. do i need to have seperate loads for hot and cold will
the 4.9 be safe in 90-100 degrees?


also after i seated bullet i pushed the bullet up against my work bench as hard as i could and bullet didnt move,i did not taper crimp.put them in my barrel everything was good and shot good
 

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Lots of good powders out there, I use TiteGroup for some handgun castridges; depends on what you are loading...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
just shot 5 9mm with my p95,berrys 115 fmj,cci 500,winchester brass,universal clay powder,at 4.7 it averaged 1172fps,does that sound right?im using a brand new f1 chrono.44 degrees
 

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What about it sounds wrong to you ? If your Vel. is is over speed for a book load by a good margin or under speed for a book load by a good margin, check your loading procedure, seating dept, possible set back of the round, compare components to the book components, were they exactly the same ? Your hardly ever going to match what the book folks get with there test guns and there pressure equipment. The books are guide lines to keep you safe. If the book said a given load with a stated bullet at the same seat dept as the book should give you Say 1,100 FPS and you get 1275 I would say stop and re-group. If your way under then do the same, always check your cases for indications of of over pressure. But that's what your Chronograph is for. Unless you are having conditions that may be unsafe, your chasing rabbits down very deep holes.
Study the personalities of your powders, Or call the manufacturer, read a little how different components effect load development. You have the tools, learn how to use them. Learn what isn't right and you will answer the questions yourself.
What does the book ( books ) say your loads should be ?
Your all hung up on this Temperature thing. You say you are not interested in S D type of shooting, just target shooting. Then here is a simple answer for your temperature
problems. Learn what the working Temp is for a given powder, if your environment gets hotter than that Take a small cooler to the range with a re-usable ice pack and keep your ammo in it, if it gets to cold find a way to keep it warm, in a warm car/truck
The Hodgons book I have shows a 115 gr. Speer Gold dot Hollow point as a test bullet,
with 5 grains of universal powder being a max load. with a C U P ( copper units of pressure )
being 31,200, that bullet is a copper jacketed bullet, the berry's are soft lead plated with a thin wash of Copper. The copper bullets should have a little more resistance going through the bore.
More resistance = more pressure, less velocity, the softer berry's have less trouble getting down the bore and may/should have a little more Vel. and May/ should have less pressure. So your indicated Vel. may be correct. Then you went down to 4.7 grains, -- again with the lead bullet having less resistance in the bore You may be getting closer to the book Vel. because of the different bullet and the composition of the bullet.
Many things can effect the velocity readings on Chroni. and or how different components react in different firearms.
Who calibrated the machine ? how well it was set up from the factory, the lighting, be it indoor or out doors, Were all the cases the same head stamp ? were they all the same thickness ?
were they all trimmed to the same length ?
were all the bullets seated exactly to the same length ?
Was the neck tension the same for all of them ? was there a variation in powder weight,
Did the pistol heat up during the fired test strings,
Ammo reacts differently in a gun that has heated up from firing, so do the harmonics in the barrel.
You give one Vel. reading, what was the deviation over say 5 rounds ? 8 rounds ?
The standard deviation in Vel. is many times reaction from the condition of the pistol or rifle
before shooting and what happens while shooting.
Did I say Max. loads or near max loads are seldom the most accurate.
To many things to consider, the air temp. would not be high on my list at this time.
IMHO I think the difference in Vel. that you are seeing is a result of the difference in components
( lead bullet substituted for a copper jacketed bullet )
Also the size of the bullets, .356 .357... .358 are influential in Vel. and pressure.
What was the standard deviation of the bullets you shot ? Also your up there in powder charge for a lead bullet, 1/10 under hodgons max for a jacketed bullet. Probably not UN-safe but it in some pistols it may create unwanted leading, what does Berry's say the operating Vel. is for there plated bullets ? Don't Miss understand what I say or how I say it for a slam, it's not meant to be.
Just trying to take all things into account.
 

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graywolf1, Whoa ... relax .... josebd was just asking a question and didn't deserve to be blasted.

josebd, To the best of my knowledge, Hodgdon is the only powder manufacturer to offer "extreme" temperature rated powders. They are available in 10 different rifle powders to include your example of Varget. Extreme rated rifle powders produce very consistent velocities (and chamber pressures) from 0 deg F to 100 deg F. They do change a little with temperature but not nearly as much as non-extreme rated powders. None of the pistol powders are rated for extreme temperatures ... reason being the typical powder charge weights for handgun loads are much lighter than rifle loads and use much faster burning powder. There's no where near as much velocity variation due to temperature as with larger charges of much slower burning rifle powder. An exception is slow burning magnum powder, which can get very finicky at colder temps.

As you noted, pistol powders do change characteristics with temperature ... always producing higher velocities and higher chamber pressure at hotter temperatures because the powder's burn rate changes. However, if you use anything but a slow burning magnum powder (Li'Gun, H-110, W-296, 2400, IMR 4227, or AA9), there is not a safety issue. The previously mentioned powders seem to work just fine with hotter temperatures but can be very hard to ignite at temperatures below freezing. Reloading manuals (and factory ammo) take operating temperature into consideration so when a manual lists a max charge, it is well within SAMMI pressure limits up to at least 150 deg. Sometimes you will see a "Do Not Reduce" caution for loads. This is primarily done to reduce the risk of a squib at lower temperatures.

Most people only think of the outdoor temperature (ambient) when indeed there is much more to consider. Firing just one round in any centerfire pistol will increase the chamber temperature to at least 100 deg F. Metal cartridge cases conduct heat very well so after the next round sits in the chamber for a few seconds, the powder has heated up quite a bit. After three or four rounds fired in rapid succession, the barrel and chamber heats up to well over 150 deg F. For this very reason, if temperature was not considered in reloading manuals (or factory ammo), there would be a huge number of Kabooms.

So to answer your question ... anything but slow burning magnum powders are safe to fire in a handgun over a wide range of temperatures and do not need to be adjusted for winter or summer shooting. Yes, velocity and chamber pressure may vary but not to dangerous levels. For magnum handgun powders, the possibility of a squib increases as the temperature goes below freezing but higher temperatures don't produce pressures beyond SAAMI limits ... assuming you don't exceed the max listed loads.
 

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I don't think I blasted him, sorry you do.
I do value your opinion and you knowledge along with your willingness to help.
Perhaps I'm not politically correct enough, Wasn't issued the gene, LOL
Be advised I meant no harm.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
its ok guys,i just dont wont to screw anything or myself up,im new to pistol reloading,i reload for rifles.been reloading 12+ years,no harm done just want to be safe!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ok,loaded 3 rounds with speer brass,berry 115 fmj rn,universal clay powder,cci 550 primer.shot 3 times waiting 5 minutes in between shots through chrony. fps 1175,1173,1175.neck tension was the same,brass length same,same color(lol).same c.o.a.l.no lead bullet,plated.im probably forgeting something,be gentle.lol.
 
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