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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not sure of the correct place for this question...

So, here it goes...

As most of us are aware, the BATFE, classifies the metal chassis as the firearm.

Therefor, the plastic part of the grip is not a controlled part.

In the past, I have contacted Ruger to ask about buying colored grip frames.

However the customer service rep. stated that the Grip pieces could not be sold and could only be returned to have the factory to have a change performed.

Now, as those of us who have disassembled the LC9s know, this task in very simple to perform.

Does anyone know of a source for the frames, or why Ruger maintains this policy.
 

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banger, Your information is NOT correct. There are many brands of polymer (plastic) frames that are serial numbered and controlled. If you look closely at Ruger polymer frames, there will be a metal tag with the serial number that is embedded in the frame. Mark Series 22/45 pistols are an exception where the grip frame is not serial numbered ... all other Rugers have the polymer frame as the serial numbered and controlled part.
 

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banger, Your information is NOT correct. There are many brands of polymer (plastic) frames that are serial numbered and controlled. If you look closely at Ruger polymer frames, there will be a metal tag with the serial number that is embedded in the frame. Mark Series 22/45 pistols are an exception where the grip frame is not serial numbered ... all other Rugers have the polymer frame as the serial numbered and controlled part.

Not the LCP, or the LC9s.

On both pistols the only serial number appears on the chassis through a window in the plastic grip frame.

I have both, and disassembled both.

Trust me, I know what I am looking at.
 

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Ok, maybe I've slipped a cog...

Exactly which gun(s) ARE we talking about?

Grip frames to me pertain to Ruger revolvers.
 

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banger, the LC9 and LCP both have the serial number on the frame and that includes the grip. Your request for a colored frame is in essence asking for a firearm.
 

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Many firearms manufacturers are getting crazy about gun owners replacing parts on firearms. A friend needed a firing pin for a Mossberg 500. Mossberg would not send the firing pin to his house. He either had to mail the bolt to Mossberg or have a gunsmith install the firing pin.

You can bet if it was a warranty issue that required you to remove the grip frame Ruger would have been pushing you to do the work. "Our technicians can walk you through it on the phone."
 

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I just field-stripped my Glock Model 26.

The complete serial number appears on a metal tag embedded into the "plastic" lower frame assembly which includes the "grips" as an integral feature of the molded part. This is the part that constitutes a "firearm" as far as the BATF is concerned.

A partial serial number appears on both the slide and the barrel, and I know you can buy after-market barrels for Glocks which of course do not include the original serial number.

As far as I know, all Glocks are like this.

Various guns handle the placement of the actual "registered" serial number in different ways.
 

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I'm not sure of the correct place for this question...

So, here it goes...

As most of us are aware, the BATFE, classifies the metal chassis as the firearm.

Therefor, the plastic part of the grip is not a controlled part.

In the past, I have contacted Ruger to ask about buying colored grip frames.

However the customer service rep. stated that the Grip pieces could not be sold and could only be returned to have the factory to have a change performed.

Now, as those of us who have disassembled the LC9s know, this task in very simple to perform.

Does anyone know of a source for the frames, or why Ruger maintains this policy.
I think you threw us off a bit in stating the BATFE considers the metal chassis as the firearm since there are examples of non-metal frames that are serialized. Metal or polymer is not really the point.

"...why Ruger maintains this policy." In the end it's Ruger's call as it pertains to parts that are removable from the serial numbered assembly. Sometimes parts are considered by Ruger to be "fitted" and they want to do that. Other times the part you would like is unique to a Distributor Exclusive model and they won't sell the unique parts separately by agreement with the Distributor. Sometimes it doesn't make complete sense but it's just their policy. If the colored part you want is one that Ruger makes as a Distributor Exclusive that may be your answer.
 

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There is one manufacturer (which one I cannot recall) that serializes the "operating group" which is the internal action parts package. This package is used in all their guns, regardless of size, caliber, grip shape, or whatever. It's really a clever arrangement since you can buy the "external" parts and configure the overall package to your own desires, essentially having several different "guns" but only a single serial number. This works because you can only have one operating assembly at a time.

:)
 

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There is one manufacturer (which one I cannot recall) that serializes the "operating group" which is the internal action parts package. This package is used in all their guns, regardless of size, caliber, grip shape, or whatever. It's really a clever arrangement since you can buy the "external" parts and configure the overall package to your own desires, essentially having several different "guns" but only a single serial number. This works because you can only have one operating assembly at a time.

:)
Sig Sauer P320?
 

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So, Banger is not wrong, but it doesn't matter to anyone AT ALL that he doesn't like Ruger's position. For the LCP - the serialized part is the INSERT, not the grip frame.

BUT...

RUGER IS NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL YOU OR MAKE AVAILABLE ANY PART THAT THEY DO NOT WANT TO.

I've asked Ruger if they would change my grip frames, or update my Gen 1's... Ruger will not update nor modify any LCP's. The gun is sold "as is," if you don't like it that way, they're not going to modify it for you. "Factory Fit Only" and "We don't do Custom work" are policies that they are allowed to make and keep, and they don't have to care that you don't like it. If you don't like the gun the way it is, either modify it on your own accord, or don't buy it.

At the end of the day - what constitutes a "receiver" is determined by answering the question "what part of this firearm constitutes its existence as a firearm?"

For example:

  1. Ruger Mark I/II/III/ or 22/45 pistol - the UPPER half is the serialized receiver, because this is the platform in which the firearm operates, with the "grip frame" being a non-serialized part that could be interchanged at will
  2. Single Action Revolver like Ruger SBH/Vaquero/SS - the Cylinder Frame is the serialized receiver, because this is the platform in which the firearm operates, with the gripframe being a non-serialized part that can be interchanged at will
  3. Ruger P Series, 1911's, Beretta M9 & Glock (AND MOST OTHER PISTOLS) - the "grip frame" is the serialized receiver, because this is the platform in which the firearm operates, and cannot be changed, but the slides and barrels can be changed at will
  4. Sig 250 & 320 Pistols AND THE RUGER LCP - the serialized component the internal chassis of the grip frame because it is the platform in which the firearm operates, such that it can be transplanted into different grip frames at will - ASSUMING THAT PARTS TO DO THAT TRANSPLANT ARE AVAILABLE

The problem, again, is that Ruger is free to elect to NOT sell you a different grip frame, and is free to elect to NOT offer services or parts to let customers modify their firearms - they sell the guns "as is," if you don't like the model, don't buy it. Sig designed their model to be able to sell 80% of 3 guns to the same person, but only tell them that they're selling you one. I don't like that Ruger won't sell me a hammer for an SP101, I don't like that they won't sell me a trigger guard for an SRH, I don't like that they won't sell me a Gen 2 slide for an LCP... Ruger doesn't care that you and I don't like that they won't sell us non-serialized parts.
 

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Varminterror's post reveals the capriciousness of the manufacturers' positions on the matter.

In the case of the Ruger "Mark" pistol series, the upper carries the serial number even though its only "functional" part is the bolt and firing pin bits, while the lower has all the little "working" parts.

In the case of 1911 pistols, the guns are similarly built with the lower enclosing all the little bits and pieces that constitute the "workings, but bearing the serial number.

Each has its own approach and the BATF doesn't really care so long as the serial numbered part is treated as being the "firearm" and thus "controlled" for the purposes of sale and record-keeping.

Just part of the hobby that keeps things interesting.

:)
 

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Varminterror's post reveals the capriciousness of the manufacturers' positions on the matter.

In the case of the Ruger "Mark" pistol series, the upper carries the serial number even though its only "functional" part is the bolt and firing pin bits, while the lower has all the little "working" parts.

In the case of 1911 pistols, the guns are similarly built with the lower enclosing all the little bits and pieces that constitute the "workings, but bearing the serial number.

Each has its own approach and the BATF doesn't really care so long as the serial numbered part is treated as being the "firearm" and thus "controlled" for the purposes of sale and record-keeping.

Just part of the hobby that keeps things interesting.

:)
What makes the Mark I/II/III/22/45 action unique from the others is that the "action" is contained within the "upper receiver". The "little working parts" that you reference are only the fire control group - not the "action".

Now... Where it gets really screwy - other than the receiver extension and buffer spring, there's not much difference between the "lower receiver" of an AR and that of the Mark I/II/III action, BUT, the lower is the serialized part in the AR, the upper is in the Mark I/II/III. Why this difference? Well, the upper "receives" the forceful impact of the action cycling in the Mark I/II/III, and the LOWER "receives" the impact in the AR action. Similarly, the "lower" half of a 1911, Glock, or other pistol is what "receives" the actual impact - the action spring is anchored against the lower, whereas in the Mark I/II/III, the action spring is anchored against the upper.
 

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So, Banger is not wrong, but it doesn't matter to anyone AT ALL that he doesn't like Ruger's position. For the LCP - the serialized part is the INSERT, not the grip frame.
I will call him wrong all day long. As determined by the powers that be that frame IS the firearm. That little tag makes it a LEGAL firearm. It's not removable by a few gun smithing tools. The fact that he doesn't like Rugers position is moot. Ruger, following the laws would never sell an un-serial numbered frame to a customer just so they can change the color of their current gun. Even if anybody with a few tools and a couple of minutes could do so. And, that seems to be what he wants. Its silly. And his whole post seemed to be him eating to sour grapes.

Also, someone clarify this for me if they want. The manufacturer doesn't have the final say on where the serial number goes, thus determining the "firearm". Thats the info I was given by a typical behind the counter guru.
 

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I will call him wrong all day long. As determined by the powers that be that frame IS the firearm. That little tag makes it a LEGAL firearm. It's not removable by a few gun smithing tools. The fact that he doesn't like Rugers position is moot. Ruger, following the laws would never sell an un-serial numbered frame to a customer just so they can change the color of their current gun. Even if anybody with a few tools and a couple of minutes could do so. And, that seems to be what he wants. Its silly. And his whole post seemed to be him eating to sour grapes.

Also, someone clarify this for me if they want. The manufacturer doesn't have the final say on where the serial number goes, thus determining the "firearm". Thats the info I was given by a typical behind the counter guru.
You obviously didn't read any of this thread at all. Banger is NOT wrong - and you are absolutely mis-reading what he and I have said here.

The BATFE enforces what gets labeled as the "firearm" - it's the part that "receives" the forces of the shot.

In the Ruger LCP, that is the metal insert embedded in the grip frame.

Ruger does NOT define what constitutes the firearm. They DO define what parts they are willing to sell.

Ruger does NOT define the grip frame as the firearm - they define that it's a non-serialized part that they will not sell. Banger was incorrect in why he assumed Ruger would not sell the part. He assumed they would not sell it because it's a serialized part - which it is not, he's wrong - but that doesn't change the fact that they don't have to sell any non-serialized part that they don't want to sell.
 
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