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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,
I just opened up a new pack of Winchester WLP (large pistol) primers and they dont want to reliably feed (too tight) into the brass. They do fit in my Dillon primer feed tube, but again, they do not feed smoothly. So, not having any other brands lying around, I measured against a primer I just pushed out of a case. Wow.... big difference, too big.

old primer, used .170" dia

new WLP primer .210" dia

That is a crazy large difference. Any thoughts out there ? Anybody have another brand .. or even winchester brand primer they can measure the diameter of for me ?

This is for a .45 ACP cartridge

Thanks !
 

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Knucklehead46, Your brass uses SMALL pistol primers, whereas most 45 ACP brass use large pistol primers. A few years ago, Federal and Winchester started using lead free primers in their 45 ACP ammo. To date, only small pistol primers are available in lead free so the cases were changed to accommodate the primers.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Oh Good Grief !!
Thank you Iowegan, I appreciate it. But what a pain, I suppose I will now have to visually inspect every case to determine large or small primer pocket ? Why on earth would they do that KNOWING that this is one of the most popular reloaded cartridges out there ?:eek: I have a hard enough time just seperating .40 from 9mm...... now this ??

I have the info I need, please feel free to close this thread. no further replies necessary
 

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I to came across some 45 ACP brass with SMALL primer pockets. Most of that brass had Blazer headstamp.
Being blessed (or cursed) with an inquisitive mind, I reloaded a few. Of what I reloaded in half I used WSP primers and half I used WSPM (magnum) primers. I got better results using WSPM primers.
So if you want to reload those cases with small primer pockets, you can.
 

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I have Blazer and Federal brass with small primer pockets. No big deal. I just separate them and when I have enough to justify setting up I reload them. They work just as well and I am miser with brass so I wont toss them is the bad brass bucket.
 

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I do not load 45 APC but last year one of the gun mags did a comparison of loading 45's with large and small primers. Their take was that one was as good as the other. The only problem was just as has already been stated having to keep them separate.
 

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Knucklehead46, Companies that manufacture ammunition could care less about the reloadability of the brass cases. In fact they likely DON'T want cases to be reloadable because it means people will buy less factory ammo.

Speer and Federal are both owned by the same parent company, ATK. As such many of their products are kind of like a hybrid. Example: CCI Blazer brass with Federal primers or Federal ammunition with Speer bullets. In fact some of the Federal products are manufactured in CCI Speer's factory located in Lewiston, Idaho and some of the CCI products are manufactured in Federal's factory in Anoka, Minnesota. ATK also owns Alliant Powder Co so guess what powder is used in CCI or Federal ammo?

I've chronographed several 45 ACP loads with small versus large primers and found NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. Of course I only tested with Unique, Power Pistol, and Universal powder so other powders with a faster burn rate may behave differently .... but I doubt it. There's no need for small magnum primers in these 45 ACP cases but they really don't hurt anything. In my 45 ACP loads, I typically use Winchester WLPs, which can be used in place of magnum or standard primers where the flash is rated kind of half way in between.

Yes, you do have to sort your cases if you pick up range brass. I shoot at my Son's range located at his farm only 5 minutes away. Sometimes he invites his friends to shoot at his range and none of them reload. When I go out after they have a "range session", I can pick up a couple hundred brass cases in several different calibers. To date, I only have about two hundred 45 ACP cases with small primers and will not reload them unless I totally run out of normal 45 ACP cases with large primers, which is very unlikely.
 

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But what a pain, I suppose I will now have to visually inspect
Yep ... And that is why I toss all small primer cases. Not worth the hassle (to me). 'Normal' .45 ACP brass is 'cheap' and plentiful. As Iowegan say ... unlikely you'll ever run out the normal cases!
 

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To go along with what Lowegan wrote, I have a couple of friends who did some rather extensive chronographed tests with small vs large primers on both rifle and handgun ammo with several different powders and bullet weights and found no difference worth discussing.
 

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Yep ... And that is why I toss all small primer cases. Not worth the hassle (to me). 'Normal' .45 ACP brass is 'cheap' and plentiful. As Iowegan say ... unlikely you'll ever run out the normal cases!


+1 I scrap ALL small pistol primer .45 ACP cases, one WILL wind up in the mix, and can be deadly in a progressive loader!

When I say scrap I mean recycle, never waste to a landfill.



Radio George
 

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I tend to always use a universal depriming die on everything, so any range pick-up brass gets deprimed and the case mouth chamfered before it gets cleaned for further processing. The last 2-3 years I have developed the practice of using the "double ended" pocket primer cleaning tool as a gauge for checking the primer pocket size on all .45 acp brass. With my vision problems I've found this the surest way of keeping those stray small pockets out of my normal stash, and it sure doesn't hurt anything to scrape a bit of the residue out of the primer pocket before it gets it's first ultrasonic bath.

I don't like "change" like this, especially if it isn't a change that leads to improved performance.


jd
 

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The dreaded small 45acp primer. I ran Into them a while back, had a box of 45acp I bought federal, and it actually had small and large primers mixed in the same box. I didnt find out till I went to reload them. I ended up scrapping the small primered brass, its just too much trouble. On another note I have run into this issue with 6.8spc brass as well, the hornady, ssa, and most others are large primer, the remington is small, but due to the price of 6.8spc brass, I chose to just reload them both, and deal with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yep, I'm just chucking all the small primer brass aside for now, in a can labeled as such. Someday this may be the norm, so I'll use it then...... or not. Got plenty of brass left over from the 80-90's when I shot .45 and .22 exclusevly .
 

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FYI, X-Treme Bullets/Freedom Munitions has a brass buyback program where they pay out roughly $2.50 a pound for any caliber brass that they sell/re manufacturer for. I wait till I get around 50 pounds & use a USPS flat rate box (about $15.50). They have all info on their website & a form to download. The brass credit can not be for more than your order is.

Needless to say, I am a brass collector.:cool:
 

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I to came across some 45 ACP brass with SMALL primer pockets. Most of that brass had Blazer headstamp.
Being blessed (or cursed) with an inquisitive mind, I reloaded a few. Of what I reloaded in half I used WSP primers and half I used WSPM (magnum) primers. I got better results using WSPM primers.
So if you want to reload those cases with small primer pockets, you can.
What do you mean by "better results" with the magnum primers? What were the different results?
 

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The SD was smaller and the average MV was higher. There wasn't much difference between the Blazer cases with small primers using small pistol magnum primers and cases with large pistol primers loaded with 230 gr FMJ and 6.5 gr of Unique (duplicates factory loads).
I don't generally use cases with small primer pockets as I have about 5,000 cases with large primers in my inventory.
 

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Because of my obsessive-compulsive reloading habits, I always clean the primer pocket after depriming the case, so I know right away when the case has an odd-sized primer pocket (especially if it a "small" when I'm expecting a "large"). I just toss the odd-sized cases into a container and reload them in a separate batch. I haven't seen any difference in performance between small and large primers in my .45 ACP reloads, even when I mix them together.


Jim
 

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We all HATE .45 ACP range brass with small pistol primers!
GONRA just segregates 'em - saves them for a cold winter day
Reloading Special Project (SMG's etc. shootin' in the woods)
lateron where you can't pickup brass.
 
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