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So when did SAAMI come up with a 44 magnum +P? Arbitrary use of a term doesn't make it so. Kind of like the current Chrysler Hemi, ain't a Hemi.
 
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I have used Buffalo Bore 300 gr. JFN bullets in my Super Redhawk., 300 gr. @ 1300 fps with 1126 ft.lbs. of energy.. These are "real man" loads... If I need more power than that for what I am hunting, it is time to trot out the rifles...

JMHO

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So when did SAAMI come up with a 44 magnum +P? Arbitrary use of a term doesn't make it so. Kind of like the current Chrysler Hemi, ain't a Hemi.
I hear this all the time but have yet to see an alternative term submitted. Buffalo Bore uses the term "+P+" to let the user know the loads are over standard pressure. In other words, to pay attention to the small print. It might not have a SAAMI definition but everybody knows what it means and that is why it's used.

You clearly don't know what a hemi is.
 

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I hear this all the time but have yet to see an alternative term submitted. Buffalo Bore uses the term "+P+" to let the user know the loads are over standard pressure. In other words, to pay attention to the small print. It might not have a SAAMI definition but everybody knows what it means and that is why it's used.

You clearly don't know what a hemi is.
Been wrenching on cars since the 60s. Was master tech with one of the big three. There are laws of geometry, and hemisphere is one of em. Again in both cases, arbitrary and marketing.
 

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They are an improvement on the original. Is it half of a perfect sphere? No. It ain’t a wedge either. ‘Hemi” was always a marketing term. Two years ago I dealt with a “master technician” who couldn’t pour piss out of a boot so that carries very little weight with me. Splitting hairs no one cares about on an unrelated subject, boring.

Now back to the .44Mag +P+......
 

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Arbitrary. You swallowed. You can put all the pluses on it you want. The standard does not exist. There are good and safe reasons we have standards in this sport. And some of Buffalo Bore's loads don't fit a standard or they wouldn't state to not fire them in Smith & Wesson firearms.
 
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Back on subject, no load standard exists for a 44 mag 50k psi loads. Unless you have pressure measuring tools I wouldn't deviate from standards. You can get there with cartridges developed to do it.
 
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Talk about arbitrary. You use that word but I don't think you know what it means. I'll ask you like I've asked everyone else, since you think that +P or +P+ is unacceptable, what do you suggest? What would you suggest tagging onto the concept that everyone will know what it means and the safety precautions will be adhered to? Because last I checked, +P was it, whether there is an established SAAMI spec on it or not.

The standard was developed for the N-frame, which has several known weaknesses. This is no different from "Ruger only" .45Colt. Just a bit further up the scale. We know what guns can handle the pressure and we have pressure tested load data that is PUBLISHED. Why would we need pressure measuring tools? You can choose not to play if you want, nobody is forcing you. However, you can't say that it is unsafe because we know it isn't.
 

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Guys +P and +p+ is way over used. There are few established +p loads and none exist for the 44 Magnum.
This cannot be said often enough. Yes indeed SAMMI does NOT recognize 44 magnum +P.

Furthermore, SAMMI has for many years designated that 38 specials be proof tested to 38 special +P pressure specs. This should put to rest all of the goofy questions about shooting +P loads in non-+p marked guns. This, of course, is assuming that reading comprehension is at or above the 6th grade level.
 

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While SAAMI has not established standards for 44 Mag “+P”, I do get the point that there needs to be some way for ammunition manufacturers like Buffalo Bore to indicate - at a glance - that their ammunition exceeds SAAMI standard pressure for that cartridge.

The problem with using the “+P” marking is that “+P” has a specific meaning and implies that the pressure is below a certain level established by SAAMI and that gun manufacturers have rated their products as either capable of tolerating that level of pressure or NOT capable. At present, with no agreed-upon pressure limit for .44 Mag +P, the ammunition could be generating 50K psi or 75K psi and still be marked “+P”.

My concern is that less-experienced shooters may not realize that .44 Mag ammunition marked “+P” is strictly “use at your own risk” and has the potential to blow up a lighter .44 Mag pistol. Maybe a diagonal red stripe with the words “Higher than standard pressure - use with caution” might be the answer.
 

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I hear this all the time but have yet to see an alternative term submitted. Buffalo Bore uses the term "+P+" to let the user know the loads are over standard pressure. In other words, to pay attention to the small print. It might not have a SAAMI definition but everybody knows what it means and that is why it's used.

You clearly don't know what a hemi is.
Sorta like super double secret probation
 

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Sorta like super double secret probation
Kinda…

At least “+P+” isn’t a term that SAAMI uses, so there isn’t the potential for misunderstanding.

I think the companies - like Buffalo Bore - that sell high pressure magnum pistol caliber ammunition should go for more descriptive names. Something like “wrist breaker” or “carpal crusher” - names that convey the sort of power they have.

For me, .44 Mag ammunition at the top of the SAAMI pressure range is plenty hot enough for my needs. It will kill any living thing in my area, except maybe a Douglas fir.
 

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Talk about arbitrary. You use that word but I don't think you know what it means. I'll ask you like I've asked everyone else, since you think that +P or +P+ is unacceptable, what do you suggest? What would you suggest tagging onto the concept that everyone will know what it means and the safety precautions will be adhered to? Because last I checked, +P was it, whether there is an established SAAMI spec on it or not.

The standard was developed for the N-frame, which has several known weaknesses. This is no different from "Ruger only" .45Colt. Just a bit further up the scale. We know what guns can handle the pressure and we have pressure tested load data that is PUBLISHED. Why would we need pressure measuring tools? You can choose not to play if you want, nobody is forcing you. However, you can't say that it is unsafe because we know it isn't.
My point.............................
arbitrary
[ˈärbəˌtrerē]

ADJECTIVE
  1. based on random CHOICE or personal WHIM, rather than any reason or SYSTEM.
 
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I'm not an engineer, so is it feasible to post the pressures of specific commercial rounds on the box along with the weight?

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I was surfing the net and looking at different articles and forum posts. I ran into a site that said you could push the Redhawk to 50,000 PSI. Some guy named Brian Pearce claimed you could push loads up to 50,000 PSI. I really scratched my head on that one. I have done a search here on this site but found nothing relating to it. Has anyone heard of Redhawks being engineered that tough?
People have been pushing the 45 Colt Redhawk to 50K psi for decades with no ill effects. The revolver is incredibly tough. Some well known gunsmiths convert Redhawks to 454 Casull and other exotic cartridges using five shot cylinders for added strength. Back when the Redhawk first came out some gunsmiths bored the barrels and cylinders to make 454 Casulls. Max Prasac wrote in his book Big Bore Revolvers he doesn't know of one of those revolvers failing. For even added strength the use of the Carpenter steel Super Redhawk cylinder gives you a six shot 454 Casull in the Redhawk.

Why didn't Ruger make 454 Redhawks. They probably would have made them if not for a barrel thread lubrication issue combined with over-torquing the barrel causing some barrel to fall off their frames under stress. The result of that was the creation of the Super Redhawk which became Ruger's flagship revolver.



 

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Exactly. I guarantee there is nothing random (arbitrary) about it.
"OR personal WHIM, rather than any reason or SYSTEM".
Not looking at an entire sentence results in a boring amount of tedium.
The fact remains there is no industry standard for 44 magnum +P. There are high pressure boutique loads thats about it.
Ignoring standards in the shooting world is dangerous especially to the novice shooter.
 
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SAAMI, which is not a 3rd party governing body but is made up of the industry itself, is never going to adopt a +P .44Mag, or .45Colt for that matter. It makes no difference whatsoever in either case. One more time, there is nothing arbitrary about it. Like the four tiers of .45Colt loads, nothing arbitrary there either, even considering the FULL definition of the word, which I did not need Google for. It's a funny thing that aside from the whining of the safety nannies, these loads have been on the market for DECADES. Garrett started it with their 330gr load. Buffalo Bore has their 340gr and Underwood has an equivalent. People also seem to have enough sense to keep "Redhawk only" data out of guns that are not appropriate. I might suggest a little more education before passing judgment. The biggest critics are always those who've never done it, no matter what "it" is. :rolleyes:

155925
 

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So you can pay big bucks for a 330 gr round that I can load for half the price. Hornady load with. 330 gr Bear Tooth bullet loads goes over my chrony 50 fps less than the expensive boutique ammo. But heck, it doesn't feed my ego. I wonder if the deer care?
 
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