Ruger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My son took his CCW class in Texas. His instructor told the class that if person was in a confrontation and shot the agressor with a reload the person could be held criminally responsible. He said that the court would say the reload was made to be especially deadly like the old dum dum bullets. Any factory load is OK. Nothing was said in my class about this. Any word on this? Ipratice with reloads and carry with factory loads.
 

·
Forum Founder
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
There are different opinions on this. My personal take on this is that if I'm ever in a confrontation, I want something that will stop the aggressor. Whatever I have at the time, I will use and suffer the consequences later. What if you're attacked at the range, while practicing with reloads, and shoot someone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
It won't necessarily be a criminal case, but it will be a civil case if you use a reload. Lawyers for the 'victim' will use it against you, telling the court that you wanted to make your firearm even more deadly than it was. It's male bovine feces, but that's what could happen.

Molon Labe

Kim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,588 Posts
You know, I have heard the case against using reloads for years now, but have never seen an actual case of someone getting sued over it or it being used against them in court. I am not saying that there is no such case, but I have never heard of it. Massad Ayoob is one of the most outspoken critics of using reloads in a self defense gun, and I guess he knows what he is talking about. But, honestly, how in the heck is anybody gonna know you used a reload????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,437 Posts
They will pull your gun with the remaining loads and it's easy to tell the primer, powder are not factory, and the case will show evidence of being resized. That is if they are really looking for something to nail you with and / or you tell them. Mixed headstamps would also be something that would raise some eyebrows.
Personally, I wouldn't care because if I was involved in a shooting it would be necessary beyond a shadow of a doubt. But I do carry factory ammo just because it's good stuff and will do the job just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
I've heard all the different opinions too. I usually carry factory loads when carrying a gun concealed except for the few occasions I might carry my .45 BH under a heavy coat in winter. Also a couple of my ready at night, home guns, are stoked with reloads. I figure if someone invades my home there won't be much of a problem.
Baker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,376 Posts
I carry factory loads ccw just to erase one more maybe the lawyers might be able to use. If you are worried about it I'd find out what your local law enforcement uses and use that.Few Police agencys are restricted to the old .38 special round nose type ammo of old now. Then you could say I figured if the local police use it it's good enough for me. Frank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Criminal Case: Not gonna happen. The law states that you can use deadly force when justified. It doesn't state what ammo you have to use. As long as you are justified you can kill them with just about anything you want!

Civil Case: Depends on the state. Here in Florida we have protection from civil cases when the use of deadly force was deemed appropriate. Again, in this case it wouldn't matter what ammo you used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
Here in Florida it's not a big deal if it is a justifiable shooting as they have a law that keeps you from being sued in civil court. If it goes the other way what's the difference as you are going to loose everything anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I have plans to go to all reloads for my ammo. I just can't see carrying factory reload for fear of lawyers --- as was stated about Florida by Conley, if deadly force was deemed appropriate, what was used would not be at issue. If factory vs. reload were a legal factor (in civil case) then caliber/fps/brl/bullet wgt and design would be restricted or at the very least we would have to worry about that as well. I sure hope it isn't that bad.

bob marly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
Unfortunately this issue is not about common sense, but about lawyer sense.
Of course it's idiotic.

The lawyer's job is to invent and press any plausible advantage with the most ignorant or gullible jury s/he can select. That's the concern.

I don't carry, but I keep factory loads for the house gun.
It's a small concession, but it irritates the principles.
Almost all practice and competition ammo is handloads.
Hunting loads would be too, but only rimfire, shotgun, and
front-stuffer (technically a handload!) are legal here.

I suppose if you want to be a crank you can ccw your old army....
there ARE no cartridges.

-E
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
343 Posts
Sorry top dredge up this old thread but I had a thought about this subject.

The local indoor range sells reloaded ammo for a lower price than the pemium stuff.All of this ammo is mixed headstamp brass and is obviously reloaded for resale. I would think that this bit of reality, i.e. "Your honor I bought my ammo at the gun shop." Surely this fact would trump any case the opposing council might try to bring against reloads?

Considering that this ammo was purchased, but not actually hand-loaded by the shooter, I think the whole subject is sorta moot from a self defense point of view.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,447 Posts
Two thoughts:

1) As I understand it, Mas Ayoob was the one to make a point of what he saw as an expert witness, during a trial. The BG lawyer was saying the good guy was using his super rhino-getters and intended to kill. - - - As I said, this is what I remember.

2) If you have data to establish how your reloads perform (I love the 100mm, for example, and my reloads are 10% less than factory Hornady), it will (in my opinion as a non lawyer) be hard for them to make anything stick.

Use your chronograph (or borrow the use of a friend's) and know what your load produces. ;)

Do I carry factory's? Yes, that's because I don't carry a 10mm, and my .45 reloads are just in major power. I would also, were I unfortunate enough to have to shoot someone, love to be able to say "I use the same ammo our police do. Is that a problem?" :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
If'n they're going to nit-pik on how 'criminal friendly' the ammo you intentionally shot at an attacker in self defense was, then we indeed are living in effed up times. Better not use hollowpoints, or any other personal defense ammo either then, as it's all engineered to cause more damage than FMJ range ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
It could come up, but only to illustrate deliberate indifference on the part of the shooter by building a load with the specific intent to do something that factory ammunition does not and in doing so creating a negligent situation such as overpenetration, excessive inaccuracy, uncontrollability, etc. The end result would be to portray the shooter as irresponsible and reckless.

All things being equal, if your load does exactly what a factory load would do, I can't see how they could build a case that you were being especially bloodthirsty or irresponsible by building you own loads.

That said, I still wouldn't carry reloads, personally, because I don't possess the confidence or skill at reloading to produce ammunition that is as consistent and reliable as name brand factory fresh ammo.
 

·
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
Joined
·
16,477 Posts
Read Checkmate's post. If you still have doubts, read Checkmate's post again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
Florida "Castle Doctrine", which, supposedly, also covers you outside of your home or vehicle provides a fairly large degree of protection, IF it is a clear case of self defense. And the BGs lawyers are gonna do their best, even if the BG is in your bedroom, to show that you attacked him/her. They lose 99 44/100% of the time.

And I rarely carry, but my P90 is easily accessible in the bedside table and sometimes, depending on where I'm going, between the seats of the car. And I use factory, Winchester, JHP ammo.

Now I just need to get to spend more time at the range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I carry concealed here in Virginia with factory loads when I'm out of the house. We don't have the Castle Doctrine and would not want to fight any additional battles (reloads vs factory) if the unfortunate situation arrises.
Shovel
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top