[Jacie]

Hi,

I've been reloading 45 Colt ammo for some time. Today I experienced something really strange. I took out my brand new Ruger NVs and put in five rounds cowboy action style. When I pulled the trigger, nothing happened.

Now I've had a bad primer or two in the past so I tried another round and again nothing happened. Looking at the rounds, they show a good primer strike. I've fired these exact loads in my Uberti Colt replica without a problem. I took the unfired rounds including those with primer strikes and put them in my Rossi 92 lever gun and every one went bang with good accuracy.

The range officer brought me a few rounds from their inventory and they fired just fine. Any ideas as to what is going on?

I used new Starline cartridges, CCI large primers, IMR PB 97, with Oregon Trail 200 g lead bullets loaded on a Lee 4 stage turret press

Thanks, Jacie

 

[Salmoneye]

Transfer bar pinch?

 

[Twoboxer]

Did you fire a SECOND time in the Ruger? If not, it is possible the primers were too high and were set deeper by the first strike.

Since these were not dud primers, the only way I know that you can get the appearance of a good strike and no bang (while factory ammo fires) is if the strike did not pinch the anvils in. IE, primers set too high.

 

[HBK]

On the rest of those reloads, take your finger and run it over the case rim bottom. If a primer is setting above the case, you will feel it even if it is only a few thousands high. If that turns out to be the problem, you need to make adjustments on your primer seating. You want the primer flush or a few thousands below the case.

 

[grandpabear]

If they had a good primer dent, then the transfer bar isn't the culprit. I agree with high primers also. The first strike set them...a second would have fired.

 

[BassMan]

Key words = "brand new" - check out that transfer bar - not positioned right so firing pin not struck?

Head space different or tighter in other guns than Ruger?

Inventory brass have thicker rims than your ammo?

 

[Jacie]

On the rest of those reloads, take your finger and run it over the case rim bottom. If a primer is setting above the case, you will feel it even if it is only a few thousands high. If that turns out to be the problem, you need to make adjustments on your primer seating. You want the primer flush or a few thousands below the case.

By the finger test, none of these rounds had the primer set over the cartridge height, although I did see rub marks on one of the primers when I took the unfired rounds out of the revolvers. Is there a primer depth setting adjustment on the Lee Turret? I'm taking it to dead stop now.

 

[Jacie]

Key words = "brand new" - check out that transfer bar - not positioned right so firing pin not struck?

The two rounds that didn't fire showed solid firing pin strikes on the primers. Visually the transfer bar is rising to cover the FP and rounds from the range fired fine.

 

[Twoboxer]

By the finger test, none of these rounds had the primer set over the cartridge height, although I did see rub marks on one of the primers when I took the unfired rounds out of the revolvers. Is there a primer depth setting adjustment on the Lee Turret? I'm taking it to dead stop now.

"Rub marks" . . . beginning to sound more like high primers.

There is no adjustment per se. Clean primer pockets and sufficient pressure when seating (pressure AFTER ram seems to bottom) is all that is required.

Rather than look for primers protruding from the rim, look to see they are seated below the rim.

 

[CmdrCody]

Have you used these primers before? LR primers are deeper than LP primers, and a rifle firing pin normally is stronger than a pistol. Just wondering if these were rifle not pistol primers.

 

[Jacie]

"Rub marks" . . . beginning to sound more like high primers.

There is no adjustment per se. Clean primer pockets and sufficient pressure when seating (pressure AFTER ram seems to bottom) is all that is required.

Rather than look for primers protruding from the rim, look to see they are seated below the rim.

Thanks to everyone here, I went back and checked the rounds again. Of 74 remaining rounds, I found 9 "high" primers based on the rock test. I placed the rounds base down on a flat surface to see if any were rocking on a high primer. There were 9 rockers including one which showed the rub marks on the primer.

I'll know if this solved the problem when I get back to the range next Monday, but I really appreciate all the thoughtful comments provided here. Thanks, Jacie

 

[stand tall]

Primers go bang, when they don't it is most times:

Hammer spring was changed to a lesser power spring and primers with a hard cup were used. CCI are probably the hardest with federal the softest.

Primers not seated deep enough to seat the priming anvil, pin hits the primer, primer moves forward and cushions the hammer blow.

Primer rub marks from the firewall are a clear indication they were not seated with enough pressure. They should be a few thousands below the case head.
Press Em in you wont set them off. takes about 15 to 20 pounds of force to light Em up.

My last 10,000 rounds of 44 mag 357 45 ACP and never ever cleaned a primer pocket,
not needed with today,s primers. Think not ?, well tell me how many rounds are loaded every year with Dillon progressive presses ? no way to clean a primer pocket and use the press in it's intended way.

Rifle primers are taller than pistol primers in the large category, the small primers are the same height.

 

[Lmstncwby]

As mentioned by Stand Tall, the rubbed primers are the answer. Your primers were not set deep enough. Try reaming the primer pocket with an RCBS primer pocket reamer. I use it on the first reload to clean and square the pocket. Primers seat properly afterward and are slightly below the rim of the pocket.

 

[stand tall]

As mentioned by Stand Tall, the rubbed primers are the answer. Your primers were not set deep enough. Try reaming the primer pocket with an RCBS primer pocket reamer. I use it on the first reload to clean and square the pocket. Primers seat properly afterward and are slightly below the rim of the pocket.

Just a little note, I have used what is called a primer pocket reamer and they are mostly to take the military crimp off and do not clean the bottom or square up the bottom of the primer pocket. The ones I have used do not even hit the bottom of the pocket.

What I found is I had to order a primer pocket uni-former
It does not alter the sides of the pocket but cuts the bottom and squares it up to factory specks. If you do insist on cleaning the pockets before re-loading they do a wonderful job of cleaning and never alter the bottom of the pocket, only the first time use cuts and squares the primer pocket. they are carbide, last forever and a tad pricey but worth it.

The Small pistol does rifle and pistol, large pistol and large rifle are different cause the large primers are different for LR and LP

I get all my specialty tools from Sinclair international here is a link to the page.

I do not use the handle, you can use it by hand or in a battery type drill.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...clair-primer-pocket-uniformers-prod34720.aspx

 

[BassMan]

Be sure to tell us why and how.

I sort of doubt that primer seating was the sole source of problem because all the other rounds in the suspect batch fired in two other guns.

When seating primers there should be a moderate amount of anvil compression at the bottom of the primer pocket. The degree of this has some bearing on primer sensitivity.

The attached photo shows some primers. The primer having the red stuff on it is a CCI 41 intended for 5.56X45 semi and full auto guns that slam rounds about as part of the functioning process. Note the anvils only slightly project beyond the bottom of the cup. Not exactly applicable to this problem but of interest.

Your large pistol CCI 300 or 350 primers have projecting anvils that are intended to be compressed at the bottom of the primer pocket and if not seated deeply enough with a gun having lots of head space might cause misfires.

Are the firing pin dents located in the center of the primer?

 

[GONRA]

GONRA sez "projecting anvils" make sure there is always sufficient air space / wiggle room
space to allow proper primer seating regardless of radius at bottom of cartridge case primer pocket.
Am sure some of the prevous posts stuff applies too of course....