Ruger Forum banner

Rethinking over penetration

2K views 12 replies 10 participants last post by  terry_p 
#1 ·
A quick search of past posts and I see this is a topic that has been debated before. As I read more about this, I tend to lean towards thinking over penetration is more of a myth created by ammo manufacturers to get us to buy rounds for $1.25 apiece.
Every caliber I know if will penetrate through a few walls in a house. Shouldn't we be more concerned about the bullets that miss than the bullets that hit the intended target and possibly pass through that target? I'm more concerned about penetrating far enough into a bad guy or animal than worrying about that round going all the way through and hitting an unintended target beyond. I have Undewood 38 special150 grain lead hardcast wadcutters in my snub 357 right now, and have loaded up some 180 grain wnfp hardcast 357 rounds to test out accuracy in my other 357s.
 
#4 ·
Hunter49, I'm all for stopping the bad guy and keeping good guys (family members, guests, neighbors, or pets) from getting injured or killed. It's just not worth the risk when you use an over powered cartridge inside your home. Besides over penetration, chances are you will have a severe hearing loss .... so much that you can't communicate with the 911 operator. Further, you can get a mild concussion that will affect your thinking, often with bad results. I don't know if you have ever been shot or have seen someone that had been shot .... it hurts like hell and unlike TV or movies, when most people get shot, the fight is over, even if it is just a flesh wound. Your primary obligation for self defense is to STOP THE ATTACK, not to kill so you don't need powerful cartridges.

I load my S&W Mod 10 house gun with lead 148gr hollow base wad cutters and 3 grains of Bullseye. This is an exceptionally good load for home defense for several reasons .... it does not over penetrate, it will make the bad guy hurt like hell and bleed profusely, it is very accurate, recoil is very modest, it is cost effective, however, the sound level is still damaging but nothing to compare with a more powerful cartridge.

Overpenetration when hunting is not as critical providing you follow the basic safety rules and never shoot unless you are confident of your backstop. If you don't follow basic safety rules, you probably shouldn't be hunting.

Several years ago, I wrote an article and posted it in the Forum E-Library, titled "Preparation for Home Protection". You might want to check it out .... here's a link: Preparation for Home Protection
 
#5 ·
Agree with several points in this article about home defense. I have several hundred Hornady 148 grain HBWC loaded and ready to load. I also purchased several hundred 148 DEWC Laser Cast bullets and am planning to experiment with those as well.
I guess my point may be more against the expensive hollow points that we are all supposed to carry vs a rather inexpensive round that may be just as impactfull in real life scenarios.
Some of the old school articles I've read say a fully charged 148 DEWC (I think about 3.5 grains Bullseye and maybe a bit harder lead) performed admirably on the streets and against aggressive animals. The penetration, however, was significant with these. To your point Iowegan, shot placement was #1 and penetration #2. Interesting stuff to read about.
 
#6 ·
Hunter49, Yes, shot placement is very important if you have the opportunity to get off an aimed shot. However, when you are pumped up on adrenalin and may not be able to raise your gun to eye level, in reality, shot placement is really a fantasy. The great thing about wad cutters is .... they literally cut a hole in flesh and cause excessive bleeding whereas normal bullets poke a hole that stretches flesh and almost seals up after the bullet passes through. FMJs are the worst when it comes to over penetration and the least effective when it comes to inflicting a wound. If you can get a hit on an intruder anywhere on the body with a LHBWC, chances are the attack is over. Perception can also be very important so when the police investigate a shooting, which bullet do you think could label you with "excessive force" .... a 38 Special low velocity target load or a high velocity hollow point?

From the tests I've done myself and the tests I've read about, hollow base wadcutters have the lowest penetration of any other type of bullet. DEWCs are a lead cylinder and tend to penetrate deeper than LHBWCs but again, not as deep as most other bullets to include hollow points.

In my opinion, when you choose a gun, cartridge, bullet, and load, you should be trying to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible to stop the attack, yet minimize the chance of collateral injuries. No gun, bullet, or load is perfect but a LHBWC has the most positive attributes and the least negative attributes for both conditions. I realize the "macho" guys just don't think a measly 38 wad cutter is powerful enough .... but it does an excellent job of stopping the attack ... probably not killing the intruder, probably not making the homeowner deaf or blind, and probably not hurting an innocent bystander. These are things that get overlooked until you find yourself in a situation where a defensive firearm is needed.

I always have to chuckle when I read how gun magazines boast about new types of ammo. Seems everything they evaluate is the best in the world. I realize there has been a big advancement in bullet technology in the past decade but I still think a lowly lead wad cutter from yesteryear takes the cake for being the all around best bullet for home defense. I also think a revolver is the best for home defense for a host of reasons but mostly because it is simple to operate and it will shoot LHBWCs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: turnkey
#7 ·
I am not concerned so much about an inside-the-home defense.

For me, the far more likely scenario is multiple ANTIFA/BLM at my house, destroying my vehicles and trying to burn down my house.
This now becomes a total LOSE/LOSE situation.

They had a rally planned about 100 yards from my home, but cancelled due to fire smoke and heat.
I figure they will be back.

I have two choices: stand aside and let them burn me out, or stand up and defend my home.

Here in CA, the State will rape me in court and send me to prison if I cap a terrorist.
The surviving bad guys will come back in the night to hurt my home or family.
Lose/Lose.

With this in mind, I figure Go Big or Go Home.
In for a penny... in for a pound. Make it count.
 
#8 ·
My thoughts .... don't be a hero. You don't need to put your life and especially the lives of your family in jeopardy. Pack up your car and get out of Dodge until the dust settles. Your material objects can be replaced, mostly by home owner's insurance. It might even be a catalyst to move to a better location. One person against a mob of idiots pumped up on drugs is certainly a lose-lose situation. If one of the gang gets as much as a sprained eyelid, you and your property will be toast.

I think you got it backwards .... the State will convict you and you will get raped in prison. Not a pleasant thought!
 
  • Like
Reactions: turnkey
#10 ·
Any way you go what ever passes thu an adversary is wasted energy ..wasted shock power ..wasted stopping power ..so simply put the bullet/projectile/load has to blow up.. bullet particles have to become small to not carry on kinetic energy

Only you can practice enough to not miss your target ..so focusing on wall pass thru I set aside normal munitions and look to the specialty loads ..shot cartridges,(reloaded with lager than bird shot)... frangible bullets, and high velocity fragmenting projectile profiles

The current laws of physics force you to choose a safe fragmenting payload of some sort or fire away with conventional payloads and take your chances

I personally self defense with standard federal self defense loads as I have no down range issues ... but if I faced down range issues..load of choice .. high velocity in some sort of highly fragmenting payload that imparts 100% of it's high velocity energy (read shock) into the subject and leaves little down range debris a great option .. makes a lot more sense to me than launching a payload at such a puny velocity (read little energy imparted)as to not be a down range liability might possibly be less than an optimal choice.

I have seen man and beast alike still able to do remarkable things with just holes punched in them when no or little energy has been absorbed/transferred

Good day

Bear
 
#11 ·
One thing to think about, if you have your SD/HD firearm loaded up with your home rolled rounds, and you use it, it will come up in court. They will be painted as "more lethal" no matter how you have them loaded. Factory rounds take that angle away from the prosecutor.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against reloads. I reload myself and have almost wore out my reloading press. But, for my carry guns and home defense guns, they're all loaded with factory rounds. If the SHTF, then all bets are off.
 
#12 ·
I live up North where it gets cold in Winter and people layer and wear leather coats sometimes as well. In the winter on the 'coldest' of the colder days I switch to 158 gr. FMJ's staggered with 158 gr. SJHP's to increase probability of sufficient penetration. Of course you still have to hit your target.
 
#13 ·
I don't let the over penetration issue worry me. There is just my wife and I at home and the nearest neighbors are over 1/4 mile away. We live back off the road in the middle of the woods. My SD is 45 ACP with 230 gr JHP's. and if something goes bump in the night then my plan is to hold the high ground (upstairs) until law enforcement arrives. If I am forced to defend myself then so be it.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top