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I have two sets of questions.

1) For home defense purposes, what's a way to sight in the Ruger PCC for the simplest operation? (No thinking about holdovers at all.) I've used a laser boresighter and measured the distance between the axis of my red dot and the bore axis to be 1.75". Buffalo Outdoors latest video, he had it zeroed at 100 yards, and he was hitting about 2" high at 50 yards. So I figure if I sighted in my rifle to exactly at 100 yards, I shouldn't have to think about holdovers at all out to 50 yards. Does anyone have experience doing this?

2) How practical is it to shoot targets out to 200 yards?

I saw a chart for bullet drop on mcarbo, and they were getting 53 inches of drop at 200 yards out of a Sub-2000 with a 16" barrel. And yet, I keep on reading about people hitting targets out to 200 yards with a PC Carbine online.

(It's on mcarbo dot com under 9mm-trajectory-chart-vs-40-s-w-trajectory-chart.aspx)

American Rifleman tested a PC Carbine, and it got over 2000 FPS out of a 65 grain lead-free round.

(Date is 2018/1/2, search for tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol)

Anyone have any experience shooting out to 200 yards with a PC Carbine?
 

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I have an original PC9 and PC4, have never shot them that far but thinking outside the box why not?

The purpose (at least for me) of target shooting is to relax and vent off stress, so if trying something like a 200 yard shot once again why not?
 

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You need to think about at what ranges you're going to be using the rifle in home defense. If you zero close (and the sight has enough adjustment) say at 10 yds you will still have hold over at ranges closer than 10yds BUT you will have significant hold under past that range. For me, this doesn't work.

How often are you going to shoot past 50yds? If you zero it at 50 all you will have to do is use hold over at home defense ranges. No hold unders at those ranges. Much simpler.

You can eliminate some of the hold over by switching to open sights or mounting a relfex sight closer to the bore of the rifle.

There are always two times when the bullet passes through the Line Of Sight. One is close and the other is far. The distance between these two depends on the ballistics of the round you're shooting. My guess is that a 50 yd close zero will give you a second past 100yds. Get or find a ballistics program and run the numbers. For me, shooting a 9mm at 200yds would be just for fun. This would be especially true if I was using a dot and not a scope. Not enough precision in the dot vs a magnified scope.
 

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I don't ever plan to shoot my PC9 farther than self defense range. If I need to make a longer shot, the AR15 gets the job.

My PC9 is set up for home defense. It has a white light and a SIG Romeo red dot. The red dot is for quick targeting.
 

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The mcarbro trajectory chart has a 25 yard zero for all cases. From a 16" barrel (aka a PC Carbine) a 9 mm is 0.1" high at 10 yards and less than 3/4" low at 40 yards. Those rise and fall numbers are absolutely negligible in a typical home defense situation and there is no need to holdover or under unless your house is as big as a railway station.
 

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The mcarbro trajectory chart has a 25 yard zero for all cases. From a 16" barrel (aka a PC Carbine) a 9 mm is 0.1" high at 10 yards and less than 3/4" low at 40 yards. Those rise and fall numbers are absolutely negligible in a typical home defense situation and there is no need to holdover or under unless your house is as big as a railway station.
I am familiar with the chart you are referencing but there is absolutely no way those numbers represent reality. First of all they call the numbers in the chart "drop" but it is actually a windage elevation chart for bullet trajectory. They are not the same.

For a rifle with an offset of 1.75" between the line of sight (LOS) and the bore axis, at contact range a sight picture would obviously result in a point of impact more than 1 1/2" low. The only way one could achieve a POI .01" above the line of sight at 10 yards would be to zero the sights for a very large angle of elevation of the bore to the line of sight, for example a "near zero" at 9 1/2 yards so that the trajectory would first be crossing the LOS just short of 10 yards.

With that type of zero with the typical 124 grain 9 mm Luger cartridge your true zero or far zero is going to be out somewhere around 120 yards where the bullet would cross the LOS the second time. Maximum ordinate for such a zero, cartridge, and sight height would be 5" above the LOS at around 66 yards.

With 115 grain ammo the far zero would be just about the same but the max ordinate rise above LOS would be slightly more.

If one accounts for the higher muzzle velocities one might expect from a 16" barrel, the same near zero and sight height would give the trajectory a bit higher arc. The true zero would now be out around 135 yards and the maximum ordinate would be about 6" above LOS at around 75 yards.

With a sight offset of 1.75" one will have to deal with some degree of holdover for a precise hit at very short ranges. One can reduce the holdover slightly by zeroing at a very short range, but then one will have to hold under (hold forward) by an even greater amount at plausible self-defense ranges beyond the near zero point.

If a PCC is to be used for self-defense I would suggest a zero somewhere in the 40-50 yard range. If one looks at the ballistics for Federal 124 grain HST for example, given a sight height of 1.75", standard atmospheric conditions, and bumping the expected muzzle velocity up by 100 fps to account for the longer barrel, a zero at 50 yards would result in a near zero at around 28 yards. From 20 yards all the way out to nearly 60 yards the trajectory would be quite flat, with a POI within one caliber (bullet width) of the LOS at all points. At 6 yards and at 70 yards one would have to deal with about 1.2" of holdover, which is quite manageable. POI at 100 yards would be just over 5" below LOS.

I would not consider a 9 mm pistol caliber carbine a reasonable choice for a self-defense firearm at a range of 200 yards, assuming that there would ever be a justifiable reason to shoot in self defense at that range. At 200 yards with a 50 yard zero you would be dealing with a POI below LOS of over 40 inches. Assuming you could adjust for this, the bullet would be dropping like a rock, so even a relatively small miscalculation in range would dramatically impact the POI. The projectile will have pretty low kinetic energy at that point, and very low momentum. A JHP round may well fail to expand.

Could you lob a 9 mm Luger projectile in at 200 yards known range and make a hole in paper? Sure.
 

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I've shot my 9mm carbine at 100 yards ...pretty easy to hit a standard 100 yard NRA target with some practice. 200 yards, would be a lot tougher! You might hit the target, but not be accurate at all........Good Luck
 

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I've shot mine at 225. Had to hold 5 feet high. Even so, the slightest wind and I couldn't hit anything. As it was I was only able to hit on average 3 times a mag of 15 rounds on a 12"X12" target and I was prone (no rest tho). Was using a Holosun 510 red dot. The holdover and wind was just too great to overcome.

100 yards is easy, 150 is interesting, 225 is just beyond what I could do with a 9mm carbine. Maybe if a guy had a magnified optic, a bench and no wind.
 

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Furthest i have shot mine with consistent hits is 175 yards with a red dot. was able to do that easy. For home defense though, i just have mine sighted in at 25 yards.
 

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I've shot mine at 225. Had to hold 5 feet high. Even so, the slightest wind and I couldn't hit anything. As it was I was only able to hit on average 3 times a mag of 15 rounds on a 12"X12" target and I was prone (no rest tho). Was using a Holosun 510 red dot. The holdover and wind was just too great to overcome.

100 yards is easy, 150 is interesting, 225 is just beyond what I could do with a 9mm carbine. Maybe if a guy had a magnified optic, a bench and no wind.
A 9mm pistol bullet is just too light, with too low a BC, and too slow to reach out at those ranges with any velocity to resist the wind while it's dropping like a mortar shell. The BC of the bullet is so low that it bleeds off velocity very quickly and using a light bullet to get velocities up actually is worse at longer ranges than using a slower heavy bullet so that 65grn bullet isn't the answer either.

I have a 40 cal carbine and even with my hot handloads, it's only good for about 100yds as well. There are large cased, magnum pistol calibers that do better at longer ranges, the .357mag being one. I have 2 Rossi .357mag leverguns, a 20" carbine and 24" rifle and with their much larger case capacity and the use of magnum pistol powder, I can launch a 158grn bullet at 2,005fps from my rifle and at 1,952fps from my carbine.

As heavier bullets have a higher ballistic coefficient (BC) than lighter ones, they carry better at distance as the heavier weight maintains the momentum and they buck the wind much better as well. That is why all longer range shooting is done with heavy for caliber bullets rather than lighter ones. The heaviest weight 9mm load tested by BBI is a Federal 147grn which produces a muzzle velocity in a 16" barrel of only 1,073fps.

The OP's reference on Mcarbo is for a 115grn 9mm bullet at 1,295fps out of a 16" barrel with a .120 BC. Hodgdon's calculator with the carbine sighted in at 100yds, gives a more favorable 11¼" drop at 150yds but almost triple that, 32" total drop at 200yds so it's clear that the bullet is going slow and dropping like a rock as at 250yds, the drop is a total of 65" or almost 6 times as much as at 150yds.

Compare that to my 158grn .357mag loads with their .155 BC in my Rossi 24" rifle I routinely use to shoot at targets out at 300yds with. Using Hodgdon's calculator and my chrono'd performance and sighted in at 100yds, it gives me a total drop at 150yds of only 4⅓", at 200yds 13⅓", at 250yds 28¼", and at 300yds 50½". The .357mag, with it's 37% heavier, higher BC bullet, traveling at 55% higher velocities really shows it's performance advantage out past 150yds over the 9mm.

In addition, my Rossi rifle is equipped with a tang mounted target aperture rear and globe front sights. With them I have both higher precision, target sights and as importantly, I have a whopping 30" sight radius. That's 2½ times as long as the PC's 12" radius. The sights give me a advantage over a 9mm based carbine at longer ranges and if you couple that with the caliber's much better performance, a significant advantage. Further, with them I'm able to set my zero at 200yds and that gives me even more of an advantage at longer ranges as the drop at 300yds with a 200yd zero is only 30½" vs 50½" with a 100yd zero.

The small cased pistol caliber carbines, be they 9mm, .357Sig, 40s&w, 10mm, or 45 Super, just weren't designed for, nor or they capable of producing the kind of velocities in a carbine length barrel needed to be at all useful at ranges much over 100yds. Anything 200yds or over is really just like throwing rocks at the target unless there is dead calm and perfect conditions. Compare that to my .357mag Rossi rifle. I routinely use it to shoot bowling pins at 200yds with relative ease in normal weather, even when there's wind. In fact, I've given them a go at 300yds and while challenging, it's doable with practice. Even my 20" Rossi carbine with it's stock 16" sight radius, is a good, reliable 8" steel plate shooter at 150yds.

In summary, the 9mm carbine is a good platform for what it was designed for, close in shooting. Asking it to be a good long range shooter is asking more of it than it can reasonably be expected to deliver.
 
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