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Discussion Starter #1
Alright guys I have an issue and I believe I think I can fix it but I want someone elses thoughts before I fork out the cash to fix it. So ive got a savage model 110E. (Flat base rear receiver) I believe from the 80s. When I bought it all it had was a cheap 3-9×32mm tasco scope on it. Well I did some work to it and it got time to do the scope install and sight in. (Its got a 3 pound trigger pull, glass bedded stock, and I refinished the barrel, bolt handle, and trigger guard). So for the scope, rings and bases. Ive got a Nikon Prostaff 5 in 3.5-14×40mm mounted on weaver #402 up front (round part of receiver) and a #61 in the rear so flat. Obviously being a two piece set it has no MOA in the rear. The rings are weaver 4 rings I think there called? Anyways the issue is im turned all the way down and still 8" high at 50 yards!!! The rings are medium in height so i went to a pair of lows just to see if it helped. It did but only by acouple inches im still way high. So I refuse to shim anything Im the kinda guy that wants to fix things right! In my opinion shimming is a short cut way to fix stuff. Obviously going to a MOA base would only make the issue worse so its not a solution. Now I do realize in the base and ring world weaver is kinda cheap (its what I had laying around). Now if i turn my scope all the way down and count the clicks up its 298 clicks, so im assuming basically 75 MOA of adjustment. So now I am going to put the cheap tasco back on and see if it zeroes. If it does it still doesnt solve my problem with the Nikon. So my next thought would be get a new base and set of rings. Im thinking an EGW one piece and leapold rings. Anyways if you guys have any other ideas please let me know before I fork out another $100 bucks on a $300 gun.
 

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shim the base, You should be able to find a lamented shim stock. I think if you shim the back it should help.
 

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Are you sure up is up and down is down? Far fetched as it may sound, I had a friend ask me to help sight his rifle in and the directions were actually reversed.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Are you sure up is up and down is down? Far fetched as it may sound, I had a friend ask me to help sight his rifle in and the directions were actually reversed.
Ya It gets better and better and I can watch the cross hairs move. I work at a gun shop and I have fixed this issue in the past for people but ive always been lucky and had it be the rings. Ive double checked everything I dont believe it to be a scope issue.
 

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When I have had similar problems my easiest solution is to use the Burris Signature rings with the offset ring inserts. They come in different degrees of offset so you can determine what you need. Far better than shims IMO
 

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There's something obviously wrong ... either the rear base is too high or the front base is too low ....or ... another possibility ... your stock forend is pushing up on the barrel when the front stock screw is tightened. A new one piece base and a new set of rings will fix it if it is a scope base problem. You can test for a stock forend problem quite easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There's something obviously wrong ... either the rear base is too high or the front base is too low ....or ... another possibility ... your stock forend is pushing up on the barrel when the front stock screw is tightened. A new one piece base and a new set of rings will fix it if it is a scope base problem. You can test for a stock forend problem quite easily.
I was hoping for your input Iowegan, being a new gunsmith im still learning and only experience limited things at our shop. I believe sense my POI is 8 inches high but im turned all the way down and my bases are level to one another (I already checked) that raising the front one or lowering the rear one is a current solution, the problem is theres only bases that raise the rear, that wont work it will make the distance greater. Its possible considering that there cheap aluminum bases I need to fork out for more true square bases and rings. Such as the one piece EGW or Nightforce with 0 MOA.

Also my barrel is free floating with the glass bedding job, I can take a dollar bill all the way back to the barrel nut before it stops.

Im hoping a new base will fix the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
When I have had similar problems my easiest solution is to use the Burris Signature rings with the offset ring inserts. They come in different degrees of offset so you can determine what you need. Far better than shims IMO
Ya I looked into those as a possible solution also.
 

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I'd stop worrying with the rings and mounts for a bit and go back to the glass bedding.

Its a common error...and will show up in the zeroing later...to much glas up front or too little torque on the front screw to squeeze out the excess and its high as a kite....too much glass or too little torque to squeeze out the excess out back and its low as the bottom of a well.

Dig out the glass bedding, do it again, cinch it down tight first time......scuff it when dry and skim in a thin second coat, front and rear with the screws torqued to just shy of the spec you want them to be when the second skim coat is kicked over and hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'd stop worrying with the rings and mounts for a bit and go back to the glass bedding.

Its a common error...and will show up in the zeroing later...to much glas up front or too little torque on the front screw to squeeze out the excess and its high as a kite....too much glass or too little torque to squeeze out the excess out back and its low as the bottom of a well.

Dig out the glass bedding, do it again, cinch it down tight first time......scuff it when dry and skim in a thin second coat, front and rear with the screws torqued to just shy of the spec you want them to be when the second skim coat is kicked over and hard.
See normally I would agree with you except for the fact that the glass bedding has been done for several years now. The gun has been zeroed with the glass bedding no problems at all. (I didnt do the glass bedding, I should have clearified that) it was done by a gun smith several years before I owned it and had multiple scopes zeroed with it. The other kicker is I have two stocks for the gun and bit does it with both.

Im going to double check to make sure the bases are level, I did it quickly earlier and its very possible there not. If so il order an EGW one piece, I have one on another gun and like them.
 

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I understand you don't want to shim as a permanent solution, but wouldn't that be an easy way to see if the scope and/or mounts are really the problem?
All it would "cost" is maybe two or three small pieces of plastic cut from the cover to a cup of coffee (Dunkin' Donuts? Starbucks? Tim Horton's?) placed in the front mount, under the scope.
I had to do that to get my 10/22 on target at 200 yards. Three pieces put it in the X, but a fourth allowed me to click to the middle of the scope adjustment range.
 

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RugerJunkey,
Before trying shims or scope more mounts try the following ; Mount the rings to the rifle without the scope, If you can borrow a Machinist 24" or 36" straight edge place one end of it edge down on the bottom radius of the 2 scope mounts with the remainder of the straight edge facing towards the end of your barrel, you can then measure from the bottom edge of the straight to the centerline of your barrel. Take a measurement close to the receiver and then another measurement at the end of the barrel. This will let you know if the mount heights are un-equal in relation to the barrels centerline. If you cannot get a accurate straight edge you could use piano wire or fishing line, you will have to have your rifle in some type of vise while you do this.

Hope this gets you the results your looking for.
Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I understand you don't want to shim as a permanent solution, but wouldn't that be an easy way to see if the scope and/or mounts are really the problem?
All it would "cost" is maybe two or three small pieces of plastic cut from the cover to a cup of coffee (Dunkin' Donuts? Starbucks? Tim Horton's?) placed in the front mount, under the scope.
I had to do that to get my 10/22 on target at 200 yards. Three pieces put it in the X, but a fourth allowed me to click to the middle of the scope adjustment range.
That is a good idea i didnt think about that to diagnose it, thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
RugerJunkey,
Before trying shims or scope more mounts try the following ; Mount the rings to the rifle without the scope, If you can borrow a Machinist 24" or 36" straight edge place one end of it edge down on the bottom radius of the 2 scope mounts with the remainder of the straight edge facing towards the end of your barrel, you can then measure from the bottom edge of the straight to the centerline of your barrel. Take a measurement close to the receiver and then another measurement at the end of the barrel. This will let you know if the mount heights are un-equal in relation to the barrels centerline. If you cannot get a accurate straight edge you could use piano wire or fishing line, you will have to have your rifle in some type of vise while you do this.

Hope this gets you the results your looking for.
Glenn
Thats also a great idea! Luckily I know a machinist, thanks for the diagnoses solutions guys Il try these tricks out.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Alright guys so I double check to make sure that the bases were in fact level but I did it a different way this time. I leveled the gun then installed the bases without moving the gun and through a level on them, sure enough the rear one is higher then the front one. By more then I would have expected but it makes sense for it being so far off. So im going to get a one piece and hope thats the solution. Thanks guys!
 

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Get a pair of Burris Signature Rings for Weaver type bases. Medium height should work well for that 40mm objective scope. (cost $45)

Also get a set of Burris inserts for your new rings (cost $20 ?).

If you are hitting 8 inches high @ 50 the bullet will still be climbing @ 100 resulting in 10 or so inches high. Your zero might be at 400 yards assuming you have something like a .30-06.

The front of the scope needs to be elevated. Use the 20+ insert on the bottom of the front ring and the 20- insert on the top of the scope ring. On the rear ring try the 10- on the bottom and 10+ on the top.

Center the reticle - turn it all the way in, then turn it all the way out counting clicks, then turn it 1/2 in. Do this for both elevation and windage.

Next bore sight the rifle - use a large black solid color circle about 12- 18 inches in diameter @ 100 yds. Sight through the barrel centering the circle. Move the adjustments on the reticle until the circle is centered by the reticle being careful to not move the rifle.

Should the reticle need to be moved more than 30 percent in any direction use different inserts like a 10+ instead of a 20+ on the bottom of the front ring.

A MOA base either 10 or 20 is used to get on target at ranges of 1000 yards or so by raising the back of the scope. Possibly if the MOA base could be reversed this might fix things.

All sorts of stuff can be used for shims - I like to cut up aluminum pop cans. Shims are cheap but don't have applications for windage problems like the Burris inserts that can be used to move the scope side to side.

The Burris inserts will allow the scope to move inside the rings until they are tightened thus preventing scope bending and such. You also won't need to worry about ring marks.
 

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The Burris rings are the easy fix. Did the Tasco scope work with the same bases/rings? If so the scope may be off even tho it's unlikely.
 
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