Ruger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I started reloading about a year ago for my revolvers 38S and 357. Love it! Going well. I love revolvers and if there was such a thing as a small revolver with 12 rounds of capacity in 38special then I wouldn't own any other carry gun! But I digress....

I bought a CZ P07 to put in my carry rotation for times when I'm just more comfortable carrying more than five rounds in my gun. And then I bought the dies and bullets to reload 9mm.

Here is what I'm disappointed in. When I shoot factory cheap ammo - Winchester White box 115 the gun performs flawlessly. When I use my reloads 125 gr every once in awhile the slide doesn't fully cycle forward. I have to manually push the slide to the most forward position. Happens about one in six shots? AND about one in ten shots I get a FTF and can pull the trigger a second time and it fires every time.

My experience with reloading for my revolvers has been that I'm producing ammo that is as good or better than factory.

My experience with 9mm is that I'm producing a lower quality.

Can I get some thoughts/insight into what maybe happening?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
What type of reloading dies are you using? What type of powder are you using and how many grains for the 125gr bullets?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
4 die set and yes I use the 4th - factory crimp die
That is the same die set I use so it should crimp ok. Did you do the plunk test to get the COL for your gun? Looking at Hodgdon web site they do not show data for a lead bullet but given the powder range for other bullets I would try going up maybe .2 more on charge weight and see if that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
The Carbide Factory Crimp Die is a crutch to poor loading practices. Using it with lead bullets causes more problems than it solves.

It will size down lead bullets and can cause horrible leading.

The OP's problem sounds like a bullet seating depth problem. Will the loaded rounds plunk in your barrel?

Hodgdon does show data for a 125 gr lead bullet. 4.4 gr CFE pistol is the starting load, but that is plenty to cycle a pistol.

Crimp for auto pistol cartridges that headspace on the case mouth should actually be called flare removal. That's all you want to do.

9mm isn't the easiest pistol cartridge to load for. Almost all 9mm pistols have incorrectly cut chambers and throats. I've had more than a couple of barrels that needed to have the throats reamed. This alone solved many problems.

OP, can you post a picture of the bullet you're using?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
That is the same die set I use so it should crimp ok. Did you do the plunk test to get the COL for your gun? Looking at Hodgdon web site they do not show data for a lead bullet but given the powder range for other bullets I would try going up maybe .2 more on charge weight and see if that helps.
COL is fine. The data comes from my Lee Reloading manual. But I am closer to the minimum so I do have room to increase and that makes sense. But what about my FTF?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
Are the bullets plain lead or coated?
Check the fit of your rounds in the chamber with the barrel removed. Sounds like the rounds are too big in diameter or too long.
CZ's are known for having tighter/shorter chambers than some other brands.
Also a little more more powder would probably help.
I like 4.5 to 4.8 gr of CFE for 124/125gr lead coated.
Also many Eastern European firearms come with a stronger RSA than some others since most are set up for NATO standard ammo.
May also help to polish the chamber and ramp.
Hope you get it fgured out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
That is the same die set I use so it should crimp ok. Did you do the plunk test to get the COL for your gun? Looking at Hodgdon web site they do not show data for a lead bullet but given the powder range for other bullets I would try going up maybe .2 more on charge weight and see if that helps.
COL is good. Using data from Lee Manual but I can go up to 5.0 gr so I will increase.
Are the bullets plain lead or coated?
Check the fit of your rounds in the chamber with the barrel removed. Sounds like the rounds are too big in diameter or too long.
CZ's are known for having tighter/shorter chambers than some other brands.
Also a little more more powder would probably help.
I like 4.5 to 4.8 gr of CFE for 124/125gr lead coated.
Also many Eastern European firearms come with a stronger RSA than some others since most are set up for NATO standard ammo.
May also help to polish the chamber and ramp.
Hope you get it fgured out.
Good stuff here. They are coated Acme bullets. I'll see how they go into the barrel and let you know. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
If you have not done a plunk test using your barrel to get the COL for your barrel I would suggest you do that. The COL data listed in loading manuals is kinda generic. To find the correct COL for your gun you need to use your barrel. Not all barrels are cut the same and can still be in spec that is why you need to use your barrel.

Once you have established the correct COL then if it still doesn't work correctly I would increase the charge weight around .2 and then try again to see if that fixes the problems. Do one thing at a time to see if it fixes the problem then you will know what actually fixed your problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
338 Posts
One possible reason for your FTF’s could be too much crimp. Since the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, too much crimp will make a round seat deeper which will increase headspace. The way I check my crimp with autoloader rounds is to make up a round with minimal crimp. Then you measure the col, and push the bullet hard against your bench trying to shorten the round. Next, measure again. If the col is still the same, you have plenty of crimp. I use just enough crimp to stop the round from compressing. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I wonder about my communication skills.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
338 Posts
9mm can be a finicky round to get right. I think that is because there are so many different guns chambered for it, and they all have slightly different tolerances. I don’t have any cz 9mm’s, but both of my ruger 9mm’s prefer .358” bullets. Without the fatter bullets, one shoots shotgun patterns, and the other leads up. In order to properly load the fat bullets, a proper expander die must be used or you will swage down the bullet diameter. The lee fcd will also swage your bullet down. The downside to using the fat bullets is they will not chamber in all barrels. They may not fit in a tight chamber.

As has been said, you need to change one thing at a time to see what works in your particular firearm. Don’t get discouraged! You will get it figured out, and it will make you a better reloader in the long run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
If you have not done a plunk test using your barrel to get the COL for your barrel I would suggest you do that. The COL data listed in loading manuals is kinda generic. To find the correct COL for your gun you need to use your barrel. Not all barrels are cut the same and can still be in spec that is why you need to use your barrel.

Once you have established the correct COL then if it still doesn't work correctly I would increase the charge weight around .2 and then try again to see if that fixes the problems. Do one thing at a time to see if it fixes the problem then you will know what actually fixed your problems.
OK, now I get it. I'll do the plunk test and see. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Do the plunk test on every round.
I haven't had that problem with my 9 mm's but I did experience something similar with my .45 acp rounds. Sometimes the gun wouldn't go fully into battery, like you mentioned. I started doing a plunk on every round and found that some rounds were very tight to the chamber. I hadn't been running my rounds through the crimp die so I started by taking rounds that didn't plunk properly and put them through the die then tried to plunk them again, screwing the die down just a little at a time till they would plunk. I can't actually see much in the way of what I'd call a crimp but removing the excess bell at the case mouth did the trick and they all feed without any problem now.

Once I had the die set I quit plunk testing every round and just run them all through the die. Most go with very little pressure but now and then I can feel a fair amount of resistance when I pull the handle (single stage press) and I know those rounds would be trouble if they weren't run through the crimp die.

Hope I explained that clearly enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
9mm can be a finicky round to get right. I think that is because there are so many different guns chambered for it, and they all have slightly different tolerances. I don’t have any cz 9mm’s, but both of my ruger 9mm’s prefer .358” bullets. Without the fatter bullets, one shoots shotgun patterns, and the other leads up. In order to properly load the fat bullets, a proper expander die must be used or you will swage down the bullet diameter. The lee fcd will also swage your bullet down. The downside to using the fat bullets is they will not chamber in all barrels. They may not fit in a tight chamber.

As has been said, you need to change one thing at a time to see what works in your particular firearm. Don’t get discouraged! You will get it figured out, and it will make you a better reloader in the long run.
Can I just go back to my revolvers? Haha. Your right, I'll get it figured out and be a better reloader!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
One possible reason for your FTF’s could be too much crimp. Since the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, too much crimp will make a round seat deeper which will increase headspace. The way I check my crimp with autoloader rounds is to make up a round with minimal crimp. Then you measure the col, and push the bullet hard against your bench trying to shorten the round. Next, measure again. If the col is still the same, you have plenty of crimp. I use just enough crimp to stop the round from compressing. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I wonder about my communication skills.
Very good! this forum is the BEST way to figure these things out!
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top