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The next on my wishlist is a HD shotgun. Doing a lot of research and whatnot.

One thing I came across that wanted some others opinions...

A guy I know has a HD shotgun, and the round loaded is a bean bag round, the rest in the tube buckshot.

His theory is that if the guy keeps coming after the bean bag he's "justified" in shooting him lethally. He thinks it will protect him legally.

Lets forget about the legal thing for now as that will vary from place to place, just wondering on all your opinions about the first round being non lethal.

I guess in a HD situation, there is a little different strategy than with CCW. My mindset with CCW, is my gun is only coming out if I intend to shoot to kill. No intimidation factor or to scare off, it's a last resort where deadly force is needed. Period. With home, I guess you may have to act a little differently, maybe not.

Thoughts?
 

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Well in Florida, if someone is in your house illegaly, you are justified in protecting yourself, up to using deadly force if needed. I would hate to think that I got killed after pissing the BG off with a bean bag to the chest and not having the time to get a 2nd shot off. So for me, my life and the lives of my family are of more importance and the only warning the BG will get is the typical "I am armed, get out of my house" but that is going to be with a shotgun loaded with 00 buck and the muzzle pointed in his direction.
 

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No. My gun is to protect my life when it comes to a lethal force option. I'm not going to try to scare him by the sound of a slide racking, firing a warning round, saying "one more step and i'll shoot", or by using a less lethal round. If you're to the point where I am pulling my gun, you have a split second choice to stop the action that has caused me to draw my firearm.

We use less lethal rounds at work. While using the less lethal, there is always someone right beside you with lethal. I don't have that option at home, and I don't have time to cycle the slide to load the buckshot into the breach if I need to shoot someone and shoot them now.

Load it with what you feel is appropriate to protect your LIFE.
 

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If you're going to point a gun at someone and shoot it should be with one and only purpose in mind - stopping the attack. Damn sure the attacker, if armed, won't be shooting bean bags at you. If it's gone as far as pulling the trigger, use the real thing, not bean bags.
 

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I think it is more dangerous. If he knows he has a lethal round he is going to be dam sure he knows what he is shooting at. IF he has the mind set oh its just a bean bag he may not be as careful. People have been killed by "non lethal" loads

"Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to kill"
 

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I have my 590 next to my bed. It's fully loaded (mag full with one in the tube) with slugs. If some one breaks into my house, I will assume they are there to bring harm to my family. An intruder is not going to "warn" me of his intentions, I will not give him a "warning" shot!
 

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The next on my wishlist is a HD shotgun. Doing a lot of research and whatnot.

One thing I came across that wanted some others opinions...

A guy I know has a HD shotgun, and the round loaded is a bean bag round, the rest in the tube buckshot.

His theory is that if the guy keeps coming after the bean bag he's "justified" in shooting him lethally. He thinks it will protect him legally.

Lets forget about the legal thing for now as that will vary from place to place, just wondering on all your opinions about the first round being non lethal.

I guess in a HD situation, there is a little different strategy than with CCW. My mindset with CCW, is my gun is only coming out if I intend to shoot to kill. No intimidation factor or to scare off, it's a last resort where deadly force is needed. Period. With home, I guess you may have to act a little differently, maybe not.

Thoughts?
Andy, most states have either the Castle Doctrine or Stand your Ground. Here's a link to some information about it from wikipedia

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note: The information is listed as currect as of July 2008. I know Arizona's laws have changed since then and we now have the Castle Doctrine.

My shotgun is loaded with Winchester PDX1 shells. From Winchester's website about the PDX1 12ga round:

The 12-gauge Supreme Elite® PDX1 features a distinctive black hull, black oxide high-base head and 3 pellets of Grex® buffered 00 plated buckshot nested on top of a 1 oz rifled slug. The result is the ideal, tight patterning personal defense load. The slug/buckshot combination provides optimum performance at short and longer ranges while compensating for aim error.
Source: http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-12.aspx

As you can see, I'm not a fan of bean bags for HD. Bean bags were designed and intended for riot control as a non-leathal method of crowd control. Generally, they're non-leathal, but that's not a guarantee. I would think someone with a marginal heart shot to the chest at close range would probably have a heart attack. But that's not the reason I don't use them. If someone has illegally entered my home or domain, then he'd better get out quick before he run into one of my PDX1 shells.

I also don't believe in warning shots. For one thing, that bullet's going to go somewhere and the other is that the BG's warning should've been that I didn't invite him into my house!

BTW - Castle doctrine extends to place of business and cars as well.
 

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I hope that I never need to use any of my guns in SD or HD. If I do there will be none of that non lethal bean bag junk. I’m going to shoot to put an end of the attack once and for all. I have a Rem 870 3" loaded with OO Buck right next to the bed. It has the magazine extension. Not to mention a handgun in the nightstand . The Castle Doctrine passed here last year so we have the right to use deadly force. No need to retreat .A dead man tells no tales. I’d rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
 

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Montana is also a Castle Doctrine state.

I feel as though once you are in my house you have violated our locked doors and gave up whatever rights you may have had. If you want in my house bad enough to enter while it is occupied, after breaching a locked door in the middle of a ranch in rural Montana and not fear getting shot, you obviously think you can defeat who and whatever is inside to get what you want, so we will begin to fire immediately. Just my 2 cents!
 

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My Opinion and it is just my opinion....

Less-lethal has no place in a shotgun/handgun/rifle.

If I am in danger or my family is in danger in our home by some bad-guy then the only warning he will get is "put your hands up" or "drop the weapon" after that I will be using lethal force to protect my family and myself.

And frankly anybody who is worth shooting once is probably worth shooting twice.
 

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I feel like a lawyer would have field day with shooting someone with a non-lethal round. The argument being if the situation called for non-lethality can you say YOUR life was in danger.
 

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I think your friend is increasing his legal risk.


A shotgun is a deadly weapon. Period. Full Stop. Whether it's loaded with lead, beanbags, rocksalt, unicorn tears, or even UNLOADED it is considered a deadly weapon. You point it at someone you have committed assault with a deadly weapon unless you have just cause. Them being a threat to you and yours is just cause...... In order to use the shotgun in self defense you must (in most states) have a reasonable fear of death, sexual assault, or serious bodily harm. Some castle doctrine laws affirm that if an intruder is in your house you can reasonably assume that they mean you ill and that you have no duty to retreat.

Now, If I'm the prosecuting attorney when your friend goes to trial I'm going to play up the fact that your friend loaded the first round as a bean bag as prima facie evidence that he didn't believe lethal force was justified. Why else would he have loaded his firearm as such??

Thus it could call into question the typical "reasonable person" standard in self-defense justifiable homicide cases.

And no I'm not an attorney, I only play one on the internet.................

Load it like you mean it. Only use it if you must.
 
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