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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone here carry the new lightweight SR 1911, cocked and locked everyday. Any problems, concerns. I carried my kimber this way everyday until I got rid of it, to heavy.....thanks
 

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Have carried the LW Commander from the first day I bought it. Cocked n locked is the only way to do it, IMHO. No issues at all. Has been 100% reliable, and is a joy to carry compared to a full size steel framed 1911.
 

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I don't have a lightweight. Mine is the regular SR1911 commander. Is there something different about the LW model that would make you think it would be any different cocked & locked than any other 1911.
 

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I have a TALO SR 1911 that I just it got back from Novacks where they installed adjustable night sights and ambi safety. I always carry it with one in the chamber , cocked and locked. I have been carrying my 1911s that way. My current holster has a button release and covers the trigger guard. It is safe and provides easy access.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
NOPE, nothing different that I know of, just my first Ruger 1911. Have had kimbers and a couple of colts, I'm just asking to see if someone has had any bad experience with this one. Thanks everyone .
 

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Locked” Dangerous?
Is “Cocked and Locked” Dangerous?

Cocked and Locked 1911

Cocked and Locked 1911




By Syd

Q: The one and only problem I’ve ever had with the classic 1911 is having to carry “cocked & locked.” In your opinion, are the double action only models offered by Para-Ordnance the way to go when safety is concerned?

There are really two parts to your question so I’ll deal with them separately.

First, yes the P-O LDA is an excellent option when the cocked and locked 1911 is a problem. Charles Riggs wrote a nice article for me on the LDA which addresses this:

Para-Ordnance 7.45 LDA

Second, I believe that the concern about the safety of the “cocked and locked” (condition 1) pistol is more a matter of perceptions than reality. It looks scary. When you’re new to the 1911, it feels scary. I started out with wheel guns and it took me some time to get used to cocked and locked. But, given the huge number of M1911 pistols which are out there in service, you would think that we would hear more about accidental discharges if this were a problem. The fact is that we don’t because they don’t go off by themselves. I have only heard one story from one police officer who claimed one went off in his holster when it bumped against a banister as he descended a set of stairs, but when I pushed him for details, he refused to say anything more. He wouldn’t tell me the kind of holster, if the gun had been modified, its state of repair or any other circumstances. This led me to believe that he was either blowing smoke or there was something about the gun he didn’t want to tell me.
Safety On 1911

Safety On 1911

What do we mean by “cocked and locked”? The M1911 pistol is loaded by inserting a charged magazine and racking the slide. This action chambers a cartridge and cocks the hammer of the pistol. The thumb safety is then pushed up toward the sight. This “locks” the pistol. The safety is on and the slide will not move. Inside the gun, a piece of the safety rotates (red area in diagram) and blocks the base of the sear which prevents the sear from releasing the hammer. If the sear hook on the hammer were to break, the sear would be captured by the half-cock notch preventing an accidental discharge. The stud that locks the sear will also not allow the hammer to fall if the safety is engaged.

But what about the cocked and locked pistol taking a hard hit on the hammer? Could it go off then? Listen to this report from Terry Erwin:

“About ten years ago, I was working as an armed-plain clothed-security officer. During a struggle with an arrested subject the Combat Commander I was carrying cocked and locked, holstered in a Bianchi “Pancake” on my strong side hip, struck the center door jam of a set of double doors. The center door jam was knocked loose, and two belt loops were torn off of my jeans. The hammer was bent inward and the safety would not move. A gunsmith had to press out the safety, hammer pin, and sear pin. The edge of the sear had cracked off, and a piece of one hammer hook also cracked off. The gun did not discharge upon that impact. I have carried several Colt’s, including that repaired Commander for most of my adult life, and have never once worried about the weapon (myself or someone else is a different story, but not the gun).”

The 1911 is a single action semi-automatic pistol so it has to be cocked in order to fire. People deal with this in one of three ways: cocked and locked (condition 1), or they chamber a round and carefully lower the hammer (condition 2) so they have to thumb cock the gun to fire it, or they carry it with an empty chamber and rack the slide when they bring it into action (condition 3). I would advise either condition 1 or 3 for home defense, but not condition 2. I don’t advise condition 2 under any circumstances. (For more discussion on the conditions see “The Conditions of Readiness”) If you are only using the gun for home defense, there is nothing wrong with leaving it in condition 3 with a loaded magazine but with an empty chamber – as long as you have the presence of mind to load the weapon under stress. (Don’t give me a “duh” on that one because weird things happen to one’s mind when someone is trying to get into your house at 3 AM).

When the gun is cocked and locked, the sear is blocked from releasing the hammer. Further, unless a firing grip is on the pistol, thumb safety swept off, and the trigger is pulled, the gun will not go off. For my money, this is much safer than a Glock or some of the other new pistol designs which have no external safety. The Glock, by the way, is also pre-cocked which is why it can have a much lighter trigger than a real double action gun. It could be said that the Glock is “cocked and unlocked” which is called “condition zero” with the M1911. Anecdotally, we hear of many more “accidental discharges” with Glocks than with M1911 pattern guns. The 1911 has two manual safeties. It may look scary, but it is really much safer than many current designs.

If an M1911 has been butchered internally, all bets are off, and I have seen a couple like that. But if the gun is in good repair, it is safe and will not go off unless the thumb safety is swept off, a firing grip is on the handle, and the trigger is pulled. If you buy a used M1911 pattern pistol, be sure to have it checked out by a competent gunsmith just to insure that the gun has not been modified or made dangerous by a tinkerer and that it is in good working order.

A sideline: of the pistols I have carried, the M1911 is the only one I carry with the safeties engaged. I carry S&W and Beretta DA/SA guns with the safety off. Glocks and wheel guns don’t have a safety at all (and no, I don’t consider the trigger flange on the Glock a real manual safety). In this respect, the cocked and locked M1911 is the safest pistol. It is unique in the fact that it has not one but two manual safeties which have to be acted upon to make the gun fire.

Now, to argue the other direction for just a second, do I feel safer with a true DA/SA with a firing pin block and a manual safety like a S&W or Beretta? Yes, in an absolute sense, I do when I’m in the world of theoretical possibilities, but again, I think this is more a matter of feeling than reality. Some weird combination of events could conspire to take the safety off, push down the grip safety and pull the trigger all at the same time, but I can’t visualize what that circumstance would be. Nevertheless, when I’m backpacking and I know the gun may have to ride in my backpack and flop around in a tent with me, I will often carry a S&W DA/SA just because some of these strange possibilities come to mind. For the purposes for which a gun is needed, I feel safer with the M1911 because I know I’m going to shoot it better and faster than these other options.

I have seen “accidental discharges” with M1911′s, but without exception they have been instances in which the finger was on the trigger or the fire control group had been modified by an incompetent. I have yet to document a single case in which an M1911 simply experienced a catastrophic failure and went off while cocked and locked. And I do hunt for such stories because this is a concern for a lot of people.

Another interesting “safety feature” of the M1911 was first observed by Massad Ayoob. In the event that a bad guy might get your gun away from you, confusion about the controls of the cocked and locked M1911 could cause him enough hesitation to give you a chance to either get the gun back or flee. The current generation of thugs have cut their teeth on double action semi-autos and revolvers and many do not know how the M1911 operates. Ayoob tested this with people who were unfamiliar with pistols by giving them unloaded pistols of various designs and measuring how long it took them to figure out the controls and make the hammer drop. The M1911 proved to be considerably slower to fire than double action guns in the hands of those who are unfamiliar with the gun.

Q: Is the cocked and locked M1911 a problem for people who are new to firearms and want to keep one for home defense?

In my opinion, cocked and locked does not present either a safety or handling problem. In fact, I would be inclined to argue the other way, that it is very intuitive and simple, and very quickly brought into action. 90 years of successful service tends to bear this out. All you have to do is to sweep the thumb safety down with your thumb and the gun is ready to fire. It is a natural motion and people learn it quickly.

Other issues come into play when you’re considering keeping an 1911 loaded for home defense, such as if you have small children in the home and how much access your friends have to your home, but there is nothing inherently dangerous with having a cocked an locked gun at the ready. If you have really small children who are too young to train on firearms safety, then condition 3 – empty chamber – is definitely the way to go because the child will not know to rack the slide to load it and they will lack the strength in their hands and arms to do it. If you are a very social person who has a lot of parties and people running through your house all the time, then you really should wear it, concealed of course, so that the pistol is under your immediate control and you don’t have to worry about someone finding it and doing something stupid. If that’s not possible, lock it up or find a smarter circle of friends who won’t go through your stuff when you’re not looking.

Finally, the real cure for cocked and locked anxiety is to get “un-new” to the gun. Shoot it, get used to it, learn it so that you don’t have to think about it. Familiarity will dispel that anxiety. Get some training if at all possible. Pistols really require some training and practice to use effectively. A good training session with a qualified professional trainer will help to separate the fact from the fantasy about what you can actually do with your pistol when the chips are down.

I feel that the 1911 is the fastest, best shooting pistol which has ever been built, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some other good designs out there. You should be comfortable with your gun, and if you just can’t get over that fear about the cocked hammer, find another gun that feels good to you. I love the 1911 because of the way it shoots, but I had some nervousness with them when I was new to them. Practice and familiarity made it go away.

“Due to misplaced concerns about safety and liability, the police have shunned the Condition One (Cocked and Locked) SA auto, mostly in favor of DA autos that aren’t any easier to use than a DA revolver. Claims that the SA auto is unsafe or requires special training are hogwash, something that too many people accept without challenge. And if you don’t believe it, come see me at any CTASAA course and I’ll prove it to you.” – Chuck Taylor
 

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Thanks stand tall for your detailed explanation. I too feared the C&L carry, especially for my CZ75 because the safety does not have very much of a positive engagement; it can be flicked on or off extremely easily. I was even concerned that there was a problem with the safety detent, but it checked out OK. I guess it's just common for the brand :confused:
 

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FWIW: While not a Ruger, I carry a light weight commander (S&W) in condition 1 almost everyday in a friction holster.

Never had an issue. I DO reach down and check the safety multiple times a day though and only once have I found it clicked OFF. Don't ask me how it happened.

I did carry a full sized 1911, condition 1 in a thumb break holster for a time but the thumb break was largely there because of the gun's weight and my lack of knowledge about friction holsters.
 

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This is why I carry a double single semi auto with decocker. I never have to worry about it plus the hammer is not under tension since the hammer is flat against the firing pin block. Sure the first shot will have a long trigger pull and the single action probably isn't 'as' crisp as a 1911. It's still the safest action type to carry by my standards though.
 

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It has been stated here many times in the past... If one has to "worry" about carrying any 1911 in condition 1, then a 1911 is not the right carry weapon for that individual. It doesn't matter what size the 1911 is, it is a safe gun to carry. If it wasn't it wouldn't be basically the same design since John Moses Browning first developed it over 100 years ago.
 

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Just remember to have at least 4 mags, and rotate them into your daily carry so that at least 2 are always unloaded so as not to fatigue the springs. I actually have 6 for my Kahr (got a great deal on GB) so 4 are always at rest.
 

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Just remember to have at least 4 mags, and rotate them into your daily carry so that at least 2 are always unloaded so as not to fatigue the springs. I actually have 6 for my Kahr (got a great deal on GB) so 4 are always at rest.
Sorry but that is not entirely true.
Mag springs are expansion/contraction springs and do not suffer from being left loaded.
Mag springs take there greatest hit from being used, not from being left loaded.

If quality springs are installed the loss of spring strength should be minimal and not effect the reliability.
 

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Just got a new Ruger SR1911

I just purchased a new Ruger SR1911 and the safety on the side won't slide upwards so I can turn the safety on. Has anyone else had this problem?
 

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Have a brand new one that has proven itself through 200 range rounds, all ammo. Now carrying it cocked and locked, which is the only way I'd carry a 1911 style pistol.
 

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SR 1911 full size. Only carry it locked and cocked. Always in a holster. Never had problem.
 

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I've been carrying 1911's for decades, always in condition one. No other carry method makes sense. I'd much rather carry a single action revolver than to have to draw, rack the slide and then fire. 1911's hammers don't lend themselves to manual cocking either. They have a manual thumb operated safety, a grip safety, and the shooter who is the most important safety. The only problem I ever had was when I was a LEO. People would raise their eyebrows and say, "Did you know your gun was cocked?" I was never sure how to answer that question. You can't explain the concept to people who don't understand guns. I was always tempted to say, "Oh my God! I'm so thankful you brought that to my attention. I must be pretty stupid and careless not to notice the status of the firearm I carry every day for your protection and mine." :D
 

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I do not carry every day, but when I do carry, it is most often a 1911 cocked and locked (1 of 2 Rugers or a Springfield). I prefer the addition of a thumb safety to a firearm I am concealing. When not a 1911, it still is most often a firearm in condition 1. Only found a safety off once, and that wasn't a 1911 and had an ambi safety. I have used a paddle holster OWB in cold weather, a couple of different Kydex IWB, and a leather holster fitted for the 1911 IWB. The grip safety on a 1911 gives it one more layer of safety. I am more comfortable with a 1911 than I am with my RAPC, which also has the safety
 

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I carried a Colt Commander during my LE career …. always cocked and locked, just exactly the way it was designed. I also trained on a frequent basis so I felt very confident with the 1911 platform. I carried in a thumb break leather holster ….. as you start to draw, release the thumb break then while getting the gun in position, sweep the thumb safety off and grip the gun. The gun is now fully serviceable …. very quick, no cocking the hammer, or operating the slide. It just doesn't make sense to do it any other way. With the extra grip safety, it makes 1911 type pistols about the safest pistols made.

There is a psychological issue when "non-gun" people see a cocked hammer. Little do they know …. many guns have internal hammers or strikers that are also cocked but not visible. Even a lot of novice shooters think the same way until they get more experience.
 
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