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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an Axis II that seems to be a great shooting gun. I had a rough go of it today and wasn't really focusing still every shot group hit close together. I was trying to get the scope dialed in. I was turning the knobs in the opposite direction so the scope didn't get dialed in. I often have brain farts but seldom do they last for two hours.

I talked to my gunsmith about stiffening the stock on the Axis II so I can use a bipod. I really don't use a bipod that often but I do use a lot of improvised rests that will push the stock just as hard as a loaded bipod.

Back to the conversation with my gunsmith. He said I am going to have a hard time using epoxy or fiberglass because the synthetic my stock is made of has the mold release mixed in the plastic.

The best thing I can think of to put a steel rod or a carbon arrow in the stock is gorilla glue. I rough up the stock or even drill holes in it so the gorilla glue can get a mechanical bond on the stock. There is also the option of bolting or riveting a long metal picatinny rail on the bottom of the stock. Does anyone have any better ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I found something that will work fine for my Tupperware stock. Plastic automotive components should have the mold release mixed in the plastic. I may have to visit an associate who installs septic tanks that are made of Tupperware. Marine or automotive fiberglass may work just fine while accuglass just bounces off Tupperware.

NAPA AUTO PARTS
 

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Yes indeed and I've done just that very work prior. I had a number of competition shotguns (NSSA) that I wanted to skeet up for my shooting style. My latest and most expensive was the Ruger All Weather Red Label (their all stainless, over and under with a synthetic stock). What I wanted besides a shorter length of pull, was to place a stock, mercury buffer among other things. Whell with a shortened stock, there was no pad mounting areas for the pad screws, no bolt hole for the mercury reducer, no pretty much anything inside the shortened stock and sure enough, the epoxies of the day did not want to stick to the synthetic stock.

What to do? There was a bit of webbing located towards the pistol grip, inside the otherwise hollow stock. This was to beef up the pinch points for the stock under recoil. Also there was the remnant of what use to be the pad bolt anchor points although no longer containing any threads to speak of since the stock had been shortened. I took my Dremel and cut several notches into the pad screw supports as well as roughing up all of the interior space reachable with the Dremel tool. I then got my variable speed 3/8" drill and using some wire size 6" long bits, proceeded to honey comb the webbing mentioned above. I then laced a series of aircraft safety wire pieces through those holes and back towards the pad. A kit being sold by Shotgun Sports Magazine, replaced the normal pad screws with a 2" long stainless, self tapping threaded wood adapter. I cut a piece of aluminum so that it had the exact pad spacing I needed so as to locate these threaded inserts into the stock.

I did a similar approach to the mercury reducer with the safety wire mentioned earlier. So now is all set to go and in comes the magic ingredient. Brownells Acraglas (shop kit size). This way it's economical and you'll be sure to have enough to finish the job. Mixing the Acraglas I folded into the mix, some of the Brownells flocking material (fiberglas fibers) and a touch of pure carbon (for color if any spilled or gouges later took the outside to inside areas) Yep the stock was soon to be solid black and nothing was going to be able to alter the color no matter what depth one got into.

Mixed up small batches of Acraglas (think dixie cup size) and poured it into the base. It's somewhat better to only go a small batch at a time. If the entire stock was filled with Acraglas all at once, the temps reached would be sufficient to melt the stock. (don't ask me how I know this factoid), but overlapping batches one after the other, allow the newest Acraglas to adhere to the former batches and all stays at a comfortable temperature.

This Red Label was not my only experience with epoxying synthetic stocks, but it was the most expensive gun it was ever done to, so I wanted to describe its installation instead of many of the others. Great luck to you on your project and with the Acraglas you can embed almost anything into your stock. In my example I placed the mercury recoil reducer, but in your, it could be that graphite rod, or...... Smithy.
 

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I've used multiple brands of bedding compound in Savage Axis stocks (as well as Ruger, Marlin, and Remington stocks), if you do your job degreasing and roughing the stock, you'll have no issue getting bedding compound to stick and support. If you want to denature the plasticizers used in the plastic mix at the surface, degreasing with Acetone will accomplish that for you. Use 60 grit sand paper, followed with a dremel engraving tip (round burr bit) or a small drill bit to penetrate shallow holes and lift small burrs in the stock, followed by a thorough degreasing and you'll be able to sufficiently adhere any epoxy based bedding compound to the stock just fine.

If a guy is lazy and doesn't perform any of those steps prior to pouring the stiffening epoxy, after a few years of recoil and handling, you'll be able to pull your barrel and dump out blocks of epoxy like ice cubes from a tray.

I like to run either a steel rod - or better a flat-bar - or an aluminum V-channel down the forend to act as a stiffener. This lets you use a lot less mass of epoxy, and relies upon structural metal for support, rather than plugs of plastic/epoxy. Route a groove down the center of the stock, embed the spine, bed it in place with the epoxy, wait 24-48hrs, then bingo - rock solid forend.
 

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Wow! nellie. While Varminterror may indeed have some experience in this field, when it comes to acetone and plastics, application methods are very critical for the novice.

Acetone eats plastic like nobody's business. If even the vapor gets onto the outside surface of the stock, you'll have a permanent scarring of the stock let me tell you (another thing to not ask how I know). For this I'd use a small cut section of towel or wash rag with only its corner dipped into a very little amount of acetone. Do not over soak the towel or use a dipped cotton ball or any other thing that could possibly drip onto your stock. And yes, this stuff will definitely etch a rough new outer surface to any plastic it comes into contact with. Smithy.
 

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Wow! nellie. While Varminterror may indeed have some experience in this field, when it comes to acetone and plastics, application methods are very critical for the novice.

Acetone eats plastic like nobody's business. If even the vapor gets onto the outside surface of the stock, you'll have a permanent scarring of the stock let me tell you (another thing to not ask how I know). For this I'd use a small cut section of towel or wash rag with only its corner dipped into a very little amount of acetone. Do not over soak the towel or use a dipped cotton ball or any other thing that could possibly drip onto your stock. And yes, this stuff will definitely etch a rough new outer surface to any plastic it comes into contact with. Smithy.
These statements in this post are flat wrong.

First off - as a chemical engineer that spent a few years of my life dedicated to "plastics" AND as a guy that's bedded around a hundred or more rifles into synthetic stocks using Acetone as my degreasing agent over the last 15yrs - if I thought there was even the most remote chance of someone damaging their stock in any way with an errant drip of acetone, I wouldn't have recommended it.

"Plastics" is a very broad term, and while there are many "plastics" that have instant destructive reactions with acetone (polycarb and flourocarbs, HDPE, PVC, etc.), there are just as many that have infinite tolerance to it (PTFE, polypropylene, nylon, PEEK, etc), and still others that fall in middle ground that will tolerate a drip and some contact time, but get pretty unhappy after lengths of time (neoprene, natural rubber, epoxy)... .

Don't forget - acetone is sold in injection-molded "plastic" bottles... Google a chemical compatibility chart sometime.

Simple test, go drip some acetone into a take-off stock, see for yourself...
 

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I don't know why everything on these posts ends up in a brawl? It's beyond me just how that is. Does anyone possibly think that if I'd had absolutely NO experience with acetone or it and plastic that I would have posted a thing about it? Absolutely NOT. So I guess that it would follow that I do indeed have experience with acetone and its affects upon plastic. My brother is a PHD in chemistry and has worked as a chemical engineer all of his life. I had a bad experience and ruined a synthetic stock while cleaning up with acetone (I loved that stuff up until this) and ran it by him. He laughed a bunch and said "Of course acetone eats plastic like it's nothing at all. Didn't you know that?"

Well of course at the time, I did not. But now I do. I don't know the chemical happenings or just exactly what is going on, but I have something much better than that and all everyone's "book learning" combined. That is personal experience. That beats anything out of a book ten times over. I got acetone too close to a synthetic stock and it literally ate a hole into that stock. So why on earth would you challenge me or worse, suggest to another less experienced than I and apparently you, that plastic is impervious to the effects of acetone (WHICH IT IS NOT)

Good grief. Go climb back into your hole and read a book or something. Or better yet, why don't you purchase a nice expensive Hogue overmolded stock and toss a couple of Ram-Line stocks in there as well. Then go get yourself a couple of gallons of acetone and combine all of these ingredients into a steel bucket and let set for a few minutes. Now take inventory of your remaining supplies and just see who was out a large sum of money and nothing to show for it other than a big blob of melted plastic. Leave the guy alone and let folks help him rather than steer him astray. Smithy.
 

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Now it makes sense, and the answer is simple: you're talking about your expereince apples and using it as evidence of your experience with oranges. The acetone tolerance of the rubberized coating in those stocks that you ruined have NOTHING TO DO with the injection molded polymer used in the Savage Axis II stock in question.

I said this in my last post, I'll say it again here, hopefully it's clear:

Not all "plastics" are created equal. It sucks that you ruined some expensive stocks, but they're a completely different material from the stock in question.

Making broad stroke statements that "acetone eats plastics" is just bad advice, and it's wholly incorrect. You asked why I challenged your statements? Because your statements are wrong - not all plastics are vulnerable to acetone. Again the simplest evidence is this - ACETONE IS SOLD IN PLASTIC BOTTLES!

If your brother is still alive - call him up and ask him about this. If he's a PhD chemist and engineer worth his salt as I expect that he is, he'll give you this same information - Acetone eats some plastics, while others have no ill effect, and the differentiation between the class of rubberized polymers and rubbers that YOU ruined and the class of injection molded polymers that are used in Savage Axis II stocks (and the interior chassis of those Hogue and Ramline stocks) is critical - THEY'RE NOT THE SAME PLASTIC AND THEY HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOLERANCES!!!

Here's a quick list of plastics compatibility for acetone - 1st google search when you look for "plastics compatibility acetone" is the Cole Palmer site - hopefully this will clear up the differentiation that I made in my second post - NOT ALL PLASTICS ARE CREATED EQUAL!

Material
Compatibility
ABS plastic D-Severe Effect
Acetal (Delrin®) A-Excellent
Buna N (Nitrile ) D-Severe Effect
CPVC D-Severe Effect
EPDM A-Excellent
Epoxy B1-Good
Fluorocarbon (FKM) D-Severe Effect
HDPE D-Severe Effect
Hypalon® C-Fair
Hytrel® B-Good
Kalrez® A-Excellent
Kel-F® A-Excellent
LDPE B1-Good
Natural rubber C-Fair
Neoprene C-Fair
Noryl® D-Severe Effect
Nylon A-Excellent
Polycarbonate D-Severe Effect
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK) A-Excellent
Polypropylene A-Excellent
Polyurethane D-Severe Effect
PPS (Ryton®) A-Excellent
PTFE A-Excellent
PVC D-Severe Effect
PVDF (Kynar®) D-Severe Effect
Santoprene® A-Excellent
Silicone D-Severe Effect
Tygon® D-Severe Effect
Tygon® (E-3603) D-Severe Effect
Viton® D-Severe Effect

So you'll note on here - 'rubbers' and 'rubberized polymers' like neoprene, natural rubber, nitrile, silicone, etc like those that are used in the exterior applied coating for texturized and rubberized stocks all have rather poor tolerance to acetone. THAT is why you ruined your Hogue or Ramline stock.

But you'll note that common base polymers used in injection molding, flourocarbons, zytel/nylon, polypropylene, PEEK (especially popular injection mold plastic), etc that would serve as the the entire material in his Savage Axis stock that doesn't have a rubberized coating (and the interior chassis under the rubber in Hogues and Ramline) have fantastic acetone tolerance. THAT is why my advice that Oldcrow won't ruin his Savage Axis II stock is correct.
 

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If these statements below were true for ALL plastics - or at least if they were true for the Savage Axis II stock in question in this thread, then the pictures I'm posting here would look very different...

Acetone eats plastic like nobody's business. If even the vapor gets onto the outside surface of the stock, you'll have a permanent scarring of the stock...

Do not over soak the towel or use a dipped cotton ball or any other thing that could possibly drip onto your stock. And [Y]es, this stuff will definitely etch a rough new outer surface to any plastic it comes into contact with. Smithy.
[A]cetone eats plastic like it's nothing at all...

I got acetone too close to a synthetic stock and it literally ate a hole into that stock...
While I don't have 5 gallons of acetone on hand nor do I have interest in evaporating 5gallons of highly volatile and flammable VOC for safety concerns, and we're not talking about hogue or ramline rubberized stocks - that WOULD get eaten by acetone - here's evidence that is relevant to our conversation.

Here's a Savage take off stock and a Remington. I poured 100% acetone over both of them. Getting pictures of acetone spills is actually difficult, since it evaporates so quickly, even at the mild 72degrees in my shop, so this actually the 3rd pouring, as the acetone had evaporated too much in the first two "takes".

This would at least represent the type of "accidental drippage" that you mentioned would burn a hole straight through a synthetic stock.

Poured over with 100% acetone:


After letting the 100% acetone evaporate - NOT wiping it off:


After dumping acetone on it 3 times and letting it evaporate away, there's no damage at all to the polymer of these stocks. I can do this again a few times a day and post pictures, but I think the point is clear - spilling a little acetone on a Savage Axis II stock while you're degreasing for bedding won't eat a hole straight through it, and won't damage it in any way.
 

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The OP is no longer a participant of the forum so I am closing the thread.
 
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