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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just bought the TRS200 Tech Sights for My Kidd internally Modified 1022.

I have a TruGlo Red dot on it now. I would like the Tech sights to Co-witness through the truglo red dot.

I want a decent Bug out Gun, Fail safe sighting system.

Electronics can be damaged through technology, or battery dies, or it just Fails at the wrong time, Dam That Murphy.

I want a Purely Mechanical setup that does not rely on anything else, and that can eliminate failure points.

My question to anyone that has the Tech Sights TRS200, can you set them up to co-witness through a red dot?
 

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Just for reference check out the Nodak...I think it is exactly what you were looking for...can be set up for either factory or .920 barrel...comes with a .052" diameter ball post front sight...I use the same ball post front sight for my home made front sight for .920 barrel...like it a lot...and you can get a .034 ball post for it made by KNS Precision from midway also...

NoDak Spud NDS-22 receivers
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks,

But the problem is I have the Techsight TRS200.

I wanted to see if anyone has made them Co-witness with any Reddot on the market
 

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I understand your situation...

Your problem is not that you have the TS200... you problem is that you are going to find it difficult to mount the red dot properly w/o drilling and tapping new holes in your receiver for a picatinny rail to mount the red dot to...

Most people haven't analyzed this in the depth I have and I am not saying you won't find a way but if I were you I would continue to look for other options knowing that there is a product that mounts to your receiver that will provide the rear peep and picatinny rail with co-witnessing Bushnell Red Dot...

That would be the NDS-26 sight/rail combination...

Additionally...with that NDS-26 you will PROBABLY be able to use your TRS 200 elevation adjustable peep sight...get co-witnessing...and retain the front sight you have now...although you will not find anyone including either of the manufacturers to verify that for you in advance...

Good luck finding a better alternative and I am not saying there isn't a better one but at least you have a very good one...albeit more $$$ than you wanted to spend...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
To mount my red dot I am going to cut a Std 1022 picatini rail in half or to the correct length use only two screws to mount it in the front location of the reciever, then i have two screws for my TRS200 tech sight rear sight in the rear location, or rear two holes in the receiver.

The TechSights Front & rear look like they are quite a bit taller than stock 1022, they may work right, just the way they are, anyone actually try it?

Mounting is not the problem.

The problem is to get the correct height through the red dot with the Tech sights.

I am not sure that just mounting them both that they will co-witness and was hoping that someone else had already gone this route could give some guidance
 

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If you look at the Nodak NDS-26 rail/peep combination with the Red Dot it tells you just about all you need to know...ALMOST...

If look at the details closely you see that the TS100 (which is and interchangeable part for the TS200 with the same adjustable height front post that works with both rear aperture options) is extremely close to the same height as the same rear aperture on the NDS-26 which co-witnesses with the Bushnell red dot...

A cut down rail mounted with only the 2 front screws is marginal at best IMO...

If you look at those parts it should become clear that if the NDS-26 does in fact co-witness with the TS100 rear height and front adjusted to match...that the TS200 is PROBABLY too high to co-witness with the same Picatinny rail...even when adjusted to it's lowest setting...

Additionally, with a ball post front post the height is infinitely adjustable whereas with the non-ball post it's every 2.5 MOA...

Mounting the Red Dot is the problem...both height and mechanically sound...

The NDS-26 has it all done and done right... I am not trying to sell you on it...just saying that you could spend a lot of time, effort, and some money and still not get it right when it's all done off the shelf for $65 already...

In my case...I want my iron sights to co-witness with my scope but at a much lower height than the Tech Sights or Nodak sights...and I want it co-witnessed with the scope not a red dot...and not use both at the same time...don't want the iron sights interfering with scope mounting...want the scope to come off quick...iron sights to go on quick...and both have the precise same height such that when I get the cheek weld perfect for one...it will also be perfect for the other...

I am getting very close...only .05" away...

No one sells exactly what I want including low enough scope mount/rings or the correct size/type front sight...

So I got parts I liked for the rear that mount on the same rail as the scope and made my own slip on front sights for the bull barrel with ball post inside a globe...

So I have machined, fabricated, measured a variety of front sights to match different rear sight elevations to get there...

Once I get the scope mounted as low as I can possibly get it...I will make a new front post the same height as the scope zero...then make a rear peep that screws onto the ring base and has the hole centered in precisely the same place as the scope...in essence they will co-witness...just don't both mount at the same time...

So I do know what it takes to get something like this done...I wish you luck and not trying to discourage you from looking for answers...

At the same time I can say with certainty that if I were in your shoes I would save myself a ton of aggravation and get the NDS-26 because unless I am not understanding something it is a well made part the does exactly what you want and it should work with the front sight you already have...

Now if the NDS-26 was not available...I would do the following unless someone could show me better/easier...

I would first install the Tech Sights and sight in (with the ammo you are going to use all the time) at 50 yards with the rear elevation set as low as possible...adjusting the elevation with with the front post...

Then I would accurately measure the the tip of the front post to the center of the bore...

Then I would repeat the process with the rear elevation set to max... it is my understanding the elevation adjustment range for the TS200 is .110"... which is in the ball park of 20 MOA...and again measure the tip of the post to the center of the bore...

Now you know the EXACT height requirements of the center of the red dot relative to the center of the bore...

Next...if it were me...I would get the Bushnell red dot knowing that red dot will work with plan D which is the NDS-26...and I would get what looked like approximately the right height rail based on my measurements...then cut the rail and mount it...and see where it is...if it doesn't work out you can get the TS100 replacement aperture which is most likely the right height for most of the cheap and available picatinny rails...having are REAL good idea already of how much lower you need to get the rear aperature...and if all else fails get the NDS-26...

I would put a third screw in the rail... the front two screws are close together and not super strong for what you are doing...Williams is a good source of drills/taps/screws for that sort of thing...

It is a long, long way around the block to avoid the $65 NDS part...at least from what I can tell and just because I searched and searched for this stuff doesn't mean it's not out there hopefully someone else has a better answer for you...good luck...
 

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Ta-da!






What you seek can indeed be done!

My recommendation.......

Bushnell TRS-25 or Primary Arms Microdot with fixed base on the front half of a 2 piece Weaver mount set for the 10/22. Buy the 2 piece set only use the front piece in other words.

If you get the TRS-25 or the Primary Arms with fixed base you'll get an absolute co-witness. If you buy the Primary Arms with removable base it sits a scoche higher and you'll end up with a co-witness but more in the lower 1/3 than absolute.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I do have a couple of TRS-25 dots and one TruGlo dot,

The Tech Sight TRS200 should be at my door tomorrow.

I will mount it and do some testing.
 

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It works.

I understand the concern about the mount only being secured with two screws vs. four. However we're talking about having a very small, very light weight red dot mounted to the base secured with those two screws. There just isn't a lot of force applied there to justify the concern. The synthetic/stainless rifle above has been my Ruger Rimfire Series rifle for about 2 years now in that configuration. It's held up well, held zero, hasn't come loose, etc. I also have not exactly babied it as I wanted to see if it would hold up in a worst case scenario situation. So far it has met my expectations. The wood/blued rifle above I just recently set up as a back up to the other. It's going to get a Hogue stock soon I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hey Rantingredneck,

So let me get this straight you are using the TRS200 Techsights both Front and Rear sights

And you are using a TRS-25 RedDot and you are co-witness through them no adjustment problems as far as being way out adjustment and not having enough adjustment to get back to zero?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok I received my TechSights TSR200 yesterday, and Mounted them.

I tried the following

1. Tru Glo RedDot sight, It does not Co-witness, Not even Close.

2. Bushnell TRS25 RedDot Sight, THIS WORKS PERFECT!!

This just Exactly what I wanted,

The High end Tech Sights with the great Red Dot like the Bushnell TRS25 Sight working together,

I have a great Co-witness sight arrangement now.
 

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Sweet...

There was no doubt the TS100 would work since the NDS-26 is the TS100 with the rail combined into one piece...

Also I was confused as well... I thought you already had the TS200 and was wanting to know what Red Dot and rail would give the correct height...didn't realize you already had the Red Dot but didn't yet have the TS200...

I am a little surprised that the TS200 with the considerably higher minimum elevation still lines up...even if it didn't...swapping it for the TS100 would certainly work...

Redneck...

Will you please do me a favor and measure as accurately as you can the height from the center of the bore to the top of your front post...

Obviously you have the elevation already adjusted for the fixed height rear a1 aperture...I would really like to know what that height it relative to the bore...

Thank you,
ZG
 

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Sweet...

There was no doubt the TS100 would work since the NDS-26 is the TS100 with the rail combined into one piece...

Also I was confused as well... I thought you already had the TS200 and was wanting to know what Red Dot and rail would give the correct height...didn't realize you already had the Red Dot but didn't yet have the TS200...

I am a little surprised that the TS200 with the considerably higher minimum elevation still lines up...even if it didn't...swapping it for the TS100 would certainly work...

Redneck...

Will you please do me a favor and measure as accurately as you can the height from the center of the bore to the top of your front post...

Obviously you have the elevation already adjusted for the fixed height rear a1 aperture...I would really like to know what that height it relative to the bore...

Thank you,
ZG
Will try to get that measurement in the next day or so. Have to find my calipers buried on my bench :eek:...
 

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There's a member of our local forum carolinashootersclub.com who uses a similar setup to mine, but....

He uses the full length factory Ruger 10/22 rail, which has both the weaver and 3/8" dovetail option for mounting. He puts the red dot forward on the rail, mounts a front Ruger tech sights front sight and a rear tech sight unit made for the Marlin 60 (made for the 3/8" rimfire dovetail in other words).

It achieves the same result as above. For those concerned with mount strength that is another option.....

The trade off is that your rear sight is clamped to a rail now instead of being screwed to the receiver directly.
 

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There's a member of our local forum carolinashootersclub.com who uses a similar setup to mine, but....

He uses the full length factory Ruger 10/22 rail, which has both the weaver and 3/8" dovetail option for mounting. He puts the red dot forward on the rail, mounts a front Ruger tech sights front sight and a rear tech sight unit made for the Marlin 60 (made for the 3/8" rimfire dovetail in other words).

It achieves the same result as above. For those concerned with mount strength that is another option.....

The trade off is that your rear sight is clamped to a rail now instead of being screwed to the receiver directly.

Thank you...just so you know I am not concerned with a red dot at this time...I am still considering an NDS-26 later...

I know the Bushnell will work if I want it to with the a1 and if I know what that height is I can easily tell if the Bushnell will work with my current rear sight...

Very curious tho to know what the precise front post height is with the a1 aperture...look forward to those calipers showing their face...if you want to find them fast...just accuse the wife of taking them and she'll go find them for you to prove you wrong... :D

I make my own front sights from scratch...the ones I am using now are makeshift prototype...once I am locked in on a permanent choice of options I will make a billet one piece front slip on...

I think the rail you are referring to is actually a Weaver TO-9 rail which I have and use in same fashion you describe...not the factory one but maybe I am not completely following you...

I currently use the Williams -54 on a TO-9 rail...it matches up to a 1" (more like .980") above center of bore post with the peep centered in it's elevation range...

My reasons for wanting my iron sights and scope to co witness are different than you guys but the methods are similar...



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Discussion Starter #17
What I did was cut my Picatini Rail to suit the Mount length needed to mount the Bushnell Red Dot on the front Receiver Mount location. So that the iron sights co-witness through the Red Dot.

Then the other half of the picatini Rail would be mounted to the lower area in front of the Vertical fore Grip, that is right in front of my vertical grip so that I can mount a tactical light to the rail.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
hey ZommyGun,

Lets hear your reasoning behind co-witnessing the sights together.

I'll tell ya mine.

I want the benefit of the Red Dot when i want it. But If I have a electronic &/or battery Failure, I want to peal the Red Dot off FAAASST, so that I can shoot Iron sights

To be truthful the Red Dot may or may Not find its way back on this rifle after initial testing is complete.

My RedDots may just purch on different rifles, right now one of my Reddots is one a AR15, I may try one on my 22/45 LITE, but i would rather shoot it with iron sights.

The Batteries last a lot longer on Iron Sights and never go dead at the wrong time.

The RedDot batteries dont last very long, even just turned off sitting. I would rather be really proficient with GREAT Mechanical Iron Sights.
 

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Yeah I read your reasons and posted mine earlier in the thread too...

I want my finished cheek rest to put my eye level at precisely the same point for both scope and my custom made iron...well...actually aluminum :D sights...if they are not exactly the same then the cheek rest will be too low or too high for one or the other...I want perfection too...just a different definition of what perfection is...I would not want a Red Dot or a scope on my 10/22 if it were going to be used as a battle rifle...also don't need a scope out to about 50 yards...past that my eyes just don't focus that well anymore...


Very glad it all came together for you...sorry I wasn't any help...however, lots of people read the threads...if I were wanting that set up specifically and didn't have anything yet I would certainly get the NDS-26 and the Bushnell Red Dot...nothing to do but screw them on...rock solid one piece mount made for exactly that purpose...
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Hey ZommyGun,

Sounds like a Great bug out gun you have there. You & I have the same goals, I know what you mean about having the right eye height when you have a proper Cheek weld, that & the eye to depth of sight, from eye to rear sight to front sight & to target is also important, and adjusting cheek weld fore or aft to get it right.

I went with the Tech Sights only because i had researched them, and that they had changeable apertures, and i kinda liked that, if nothing else, they were adjustable, to get a Good eye depth of field & range with the Target.

I know what you are talking about as far as eye sight, and seeing clearly further out.
I could not see very far very clearly before, someone where i shoot recommended for me to get some eye drops, and that i probably had dry eyes and that my sight would improve and so would my shooting i tried it and wow what a difference, guess i just had dry eyes.

I usually put in a couple of eye drops about a half hour before i go to the range and it really has helped, I have been using "Systane" eye drops Long Lasting they work really well, i get them at the local grocery store
 
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