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I am amazed, partially because I am used to rifles on the higher end of affordable quality, i.e Husqvarna, Ruger, and Winchester that MOST of the new rifles today feel like scrap. Remington is especially BAD, even the M700 and M870 are scaring me now. It's rampant throughout the gun world, it's a lot like a cancer it seems, spreading like wildfire. Remington, Marlin, Savage, and even Tikka seem to be on the decline. What do they call a finish these days, some look and feel like they were turned on a lathe!? And bluing, pfft! The M700 is quickly losing my respect, I'm ashamed at what they call bolt jeweling these days, nothing like it once was (compared an old lock on safe M700 to a new one, startling to say the least). So, now to the point of this rant, am I the only one noticing this? Am I alone in rant world?:confused:


I feel that the M77 and M70 are still top shelf, but I'm not here to rant about them either. If me as a 15 year old sees a problem, it's probably worse than I even suspect, LOL.
 

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There's always talk about the poor quality of things and then when it comes to paying for good quality folks often opt for the less expensive option pushing the market in that direction. Quality doesn't come cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There's always talk about the poor quality of things and then when it comes to paying for good quality folks often opt for the less expensive option pushing the market in that direction. Quality doesn't come cheap.
The Remington 700's price rise has exceded inflation, yet while the product decreases in quality. Quality in rifles didn't use to cost 900+$ (or whatever inflation adjusted rate that would amount to). It's insanity.
 

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The Remington 700's price rise has exceded inflation, yet while the product decreases in quality. Quality in rifles didn't use to cost 900+$ (or whatever inflation adjusted rate that would amount to). It's insanity.
If you think the quality of rifle you want can be profitably built for the price you want then go and do it. Folks would eat it up.
 

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I commend you on your observations about the Junk being sold today.
Yes most of it is crap, craftsmanship cost money. It's much easier to sand blast or bead blast a barrel than to hand polish one, put on a cheep to make plastic molded stock
and call it tactical, Not only is there a pathetic lack of firearm knowledge with the new
gun culture, many people wouldn't know quality if it jump up and bit them in the but.
Many are of the know it know mentality and wont ask a question and many don't have a clue as to what the correct answer is anyway.
Like they say:
There are some that make it happen,
some that watch it happen,
and some that don't know what happened.
 

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The general quality of everything is not what it used to be. Part of it is greed by manufacturers, part is impatience of the manufacturers and customers, part is the customer's fault.

We have gotten used to the cheaper imported goods flooding the country, of lesser quality. It doesn't take much of an improvement for that stuff to look good and become "quality". So real quality is seldom seen, and rarely missed by most.
 

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I bought a "cheap" rifle, a marlin xl7 (pre remlin). It is as accurate as any other rifle I own. That being said, when I handle my older rifles they just feel better in my hands.
 

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Don't forget that the manufacturers are driven by the market and give people what they want. If you want to spend the money, there are lots of nice guns out there with the workmanship of a Swiss watch. But you're not going to find say, Wilson Combat or even a high end Ruger like the GP100 at Walmart.
 

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Interesting thread.

I, too, lament the passage of true craftsmanship. Firearms, like almost EVERY other type of product and service, are subject to the market forces at hand. Today's economy, and the decline in the value of the dollar, have combined to make the higher-end gun market unobtainable for most. Comparing a Winchester deluxe 1873 rifle with a plastic stocked, matte finished, mass produced fire arm is an excercise in frustration. One is a "tool" that WILL get the job done. The other is a piece of ART! We all have seen folks that wouldn't know the difference!
Fortunately, Ruger has responded with a line-up up firearms that has something for everyone. Well built, reliable, American made.....entry level to #1 rifles; proud to be a Ruger fan!
 

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The manner of manufacturing nowadays is mass produced parts designed to be quickly assembled by unskilled labor and automated machines, not hand fitted and finished.

That's why you get plastic stocks that are molded and need no fitting and finishing, computer machined or cast parts that go together without hand fitting, and painted barrels and receivers instead of blueing.

Most people don't know the difference, or don't care at the price point they are willing to pay.
 

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I'm an old fart and have been around firearms all my life. I was an aircraft tech and think I have a fair grasp on quality machining. That being said I wouldn't call many of the identified arms crap, they are tools and function fine. Are they finished like an early Weatherby or some of the fine English shotguns? Not really.
But the market is what it is. And for some to imply that owners who except the weapons as the tools they are deficient in knowing what is a good firearms is boarderline snobbery.
Is my polymer stocked Mini 14 Tactical a museum piece? Not even close. But it does the job and puts a dumb grin on my face. AND was worth every cent to me.
i'm suprised at the furnature fit of the new Marlins, so guess what I won't buy one. The market may change that trend.
 

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This is why I just paid about the same amount for a good condition 1963 Winchester 94 as a new Marlin would have cost me.
 

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I believe that we as the consumers get what we deserve and have voted for with our wallets....

How many purchase decisions are made as 'cheaper is better' the sole priority?

Companies make what sells. They're in business to make money and nothing else.
 

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I don't know about all gun companies, but I have read that Cerebus Captial Management (a George Soros organization) which runs an outfit called "Freedom Group" has bought up a lot of gun and gun related companies. Here is a list from Wikipedia:

Advanced Armament Corporation
Barnes Bullets
Bushmaster Firearms International
Dakota Arms
DPMS Panther Arms
H & R Firearms
Marlin
Mountain Khakis
Para USA
Parker Gunmakers
Remington Arms
Remington Military
Remington LE
Remington PMPD
TAPCO

I have also heard a lot about the declining quality of Remington guns. I don't know if it is right to connect the dots this way, but generally when a capital investment group starts buying up companies, it is with the idea of shedding cost, consolidating, and closing those that don't meet their profitability goals.

It sort of looks like this might be happening with these companies. (If it walks like a duck, etc.)

Hard to imagine with the tremendous upsurge in gun buying in the last few years why some gun companies would start to offer inferior products. That doesn't sound like the road to success to me.

I'm sticking with Ruger.
 

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You only have to log onto most Australian firearm forums to see that this has been going on for some time.
 

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I'd say it is simple consumer economics. In order to be able to sell at a profitable price point, manufacturers cannot afford to pay someone even bare median income (which I think in the US is now shade over $50K) to sit around hand polishing blued steel or hand rubbing hardwood stocks, or hand fitting parts.

Lots of folks talk about Colt bringing back the Python, but if they wanted to make them to the old hand fitted and finished look and feel, it would cost them more to make then just about anyone would be willing to pay.

Current Winchester lever-guns are made in Japan by Miroku, who actually still does use an unusual amount of hand fitting and finishing. And Winchester-Miroku sales pale in comparison to Rossi and other cheaper Winchester clones (and yes, the finish on a Miroku is noticeably superior to a Rossi).

Consumers drive the business model. If a company can make an old-school look fit and finish gun and sell it profitably, they'll survive. Reality is, that is not what consumers appear willing to pay for.

On the other hand, in terms of functional quality, I actually think many firearms made today far exceed that of older weapons. Better steels, tighter manufacturing tolerances and higher precision on parts dimensions, better anit-corrosion coatings all make many modern firearms more reliable and durable than older products. At least that has been my experience over say, the last 10 years with makes like Ruger, Colt, SIG, FNH and CZ.
 
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