Ruger Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all. I have been watching and reading a lot about real life CCW self defense situations. Hundreds of hours exist on the 'net of videos recording actual firearm self defense scenarios. They are not pretty and they are incredibly violent encounters. It has made me re-evaluate my own thoughts about CCW and how to train myself for these encounters. What I want to share on this thread is a few of my personal take aways from all this new data. Let me say that I have NEVER had to experience this kind of attack in civilian life. My congratulations go out to those who have. My hat is off to you all.
I [we] refer to such CCW situations as "gun fights". The real life data suggests that these are really violent close-in attacks by a predator willing to take your life to get what they want. Far too many BGs are career criminals. None of the vids I have poured over have ever shown a polite BG waiting patiently to be targeted by a defensive firearm in the hands of a good guy. Think of the nature films where a gentle creature is suddenly and powerfully overwhelmed by a hungry predator. The majority of these attacks caught the victim completely by surprise [we simply cannot live in condition yellow every waking minute]. The distance of the attack is very close - body odor close - less than 15 or so feet. FBI- 3 shots, 3 seconds, 3 yards. The lighting is poor or it takes place during the night hours. Drawing a sidearm is a self-defense reaction and not a carefully executed presentation. Scuffles occur during the attacks. How are our [my] basic survival hand to hand skills?
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT any kind of instructor neither do I have any books to sell on the issue. I am just an old guy still pondering the whole CCW thing. Do I carry? You bet'cha. Am I a Doc Holladay or Wyatt Earp? Not on your life. These several realities have completely transformed my thinking about my own CCW gear choices and now my personal preparation and training as well. Check it out for yourself. It's all there.
Thanks for reading some of my random thoughts during a quiet morning.
Pops
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,142 Posts
All very true. Just curious, how has this affected your CCW gear choices? Are you getting different guns, holster types, etc?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,131 Posts
Maybe the police can't profile but we can. If you see someone that lowers your comfort level then avoid them. If you can't be ready. That is actually why I like pocket carry as I can have gun in hand and no one is the wiser.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
Good points.

I fully believe that those who fantasize " . . . when I observed two shady-looking characters approaching on an intercept course across the darkened parking lot, I surreptitiously reached under my Joe-Bob-Shoot-Me-First urban-camo vest and took a shooting grip on my two-tone Binford 5000 Blastomatic tactical pistol loaded with 37 rounds of 44.39-grain truncated-hollowpoint magnesium bullets which lay ready in my Tactical-Operator-Special-Op shoulder holster and prepared to assume the Full Weaver stance . . ." will almost certainly miss the accomplice approaching quietly about five steps behind him.

Reality trumps fantasy every time.

JMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,338 Posts
Maybe the police can't profile but we can. If you see someone that lowers your comfort level then avoid them. If you can't be ready. That is actually why I like pocket carry as I can have gun in hand and no one is the wiser.
I also use the pocket holster carry option, especially in the summer. I often have to walk through "bad" neighborhoods to get to where I work, so a pocket holster lets me stroll along with my hands in my pockets (and one of them wrapped around the butt of my pistol) with my head up and on a swivel, maintaining situational awareness.

What I've learned from talking to victims of criminal attacks is that many of them either weren't paying any attention to their surroundings (put the cell phone away!) or they saw the person who attacked them and rationalized away the fear they felt when they saw them.

The most important weapon - I would say your only weapon (everything else is a "tool") - is your brain. If you're bringing your brain into a fight from a "cold start" (like from checking your e-mail on your cell phone), it will take a few seconds before your brain is oriented to the situation and starts to fight back; by then, you've probably already lost.


Jim
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,338 Posts
bobswinea ... I agree in general with your take. Since there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of variables that may shape any real world self defense situation, and since it's impossible to predict/prepare in advance for exactly what will happen, and since I'm too old to run and unlikely to win a physical altercation against superior strength or multiple attackers, I choose to simply focus on the things that I can control:
1. Maintain awareness of my surroundings and situation.
2. Try not to place myself in "obvious" harms way.
3. Work weekly on the draw stroke from beneath cover clothing.
4. Work weekly on point shooting drills.
5. Pray that I never need any of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
" I am just an old guy still pondering the whole CCW thing. Do I carry? You bet'cha."

"so a pocket holster lets me stroll along with my hands in my pockets (and one of them wrapped around the butt of my pistol) with my head up and on a swivel, maintaining situational awareness."

"1. Maintain awareness of my surroundings and situation.
2. Try not to place myself in "obvious" harms way.
3. Work weekly on the draw stroke from beneath cover clothing.
4. Work weekly on point shooting drills."

this has to be one of the better threads I've read on this site. thank you.

how many people have a place to shoot where they can work from a holster? shoot outside with no eye or ear protection(maybe 1 mag, just so you know what it's like)?
shoot outside at night (sights, lasers, flashlight, muzzle flash)?

ok, it's 2am, they just busted in the front door, alarm went off, dog is barking, wife is screaming---- is it bad guys, a drug bust at the wrong house, is anybody going to put the coffee on? what's the plan?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes! This is what I was posting about. I live in the rural backwaters of WA. Talking to a lot of folks out here a half hour spent at the range a couple of times per year is considered "good to go". Certainly I am no alarmist but I do become interested in other's apparently caviler attitudes about the realities and responsibilities of CCW. I know I'm preaching to the choir on our forum about this. Each of us needs to assess our own situations and prepare for them as we see fit. Certainly I have over time and reflection changed my carry piece and the holsters, etc. It may change again as things develop. Had a younger friend of mine a few weeks ago who was driving with his fiancee. A car pulled along side of him and fired shots at him for no apparent reason. This was on our main state highway. He wisely had his lady friend get down on the floorboard and call 911. It was then that he discovered he could not open his glove compartment to get his CCW out because she was blocking it. Did this give me pause for thought as to where I could keep my own CCW in the car? It did. I do believe all of us are constantly engaged in studying and learning all we can about personal protection and how best to protect our loved ones and ourselves. One size does not fit all. Everything ended well for those two thankfully who were only out for a Sunday drive. Sheriff located the car abandoned a while later. The occupants were no where to be found. Stolen auto. Go figure. Thanks everyone for your ongoing input. It is appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I too like the pocket carry. Being able to have my hand on the gun without drawing attention to myself is a big advantage.
I practice drawing with a laserlyte training cartridge and "fire" at pieces of reflective tape in the garage. I was surprised with the accuracy of point shooting vs sight alignment when I really hurried at it.
I have the privilege of using my friends private range where we have all types of steel challenge targets to work with. The instant feedback makes a big difference IMHO.

GW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
" I do become interested in other's apparently caviler attitudes about the realities and responsibilities of CCW." ( Bob is on the case today.)

do you ever wonder about getting caught in the cross fire of a bunch of CCW permit holders, something like a multi shooter event at a mall? all them .380 bullets zinging around? Yikes!

where do you go to practice evasive driving and shooting left handed out the drivers side window? (back to Bob's story about his friend getting shot at on the highway, the car was stolen, did the gun they used come in the car, maybe they found it in the glove box? who leaves a gun in a car?)

how many CCW permit holders with carry guns also carry a cellphone with a good defense lawyer on speed dial? or, because of your obvious innocence your just going to tell the cops everything you know, maybe even brag on what a good shot you are and the trigger job you did to the gun? hehehehehe.
 

·
Viceroy 🟩🟩🟩
Joined
·
3,251 Posts
... they saw the person who attacked them and rationalized away the fear they felt when they saw them.
If I've said it once here, I've said it a thousand times. The book "The Gift of Fear" is a must-read. If something feels wrong, FOR GOD'S SAKE ignore your politically correct impulses and listen to your instincts!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,978 Posts
Ever since that research on just how close attacks take place was published, our local LEOs have been retraining (they use our club range), adding in defensive moves to keep the perp from grabbing their gun and so on. The data was a real game changer.

For two-legged varmints, I have always packed a J frame 38 637 or 642 snubbie in an IWBH and always will. Out in the woods with the four-legged nasties is another story. That kind of SD work can take place at a bit more of a distance, so I'm more inclined to carry a gun with good sights, not to mention more power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
My son in law (US Army Special Forces badass) was working with my wife at a range. He had her stand right at the target and try to push the target (backboard) away with her left hand while drawing and shooting the target with her right. He told her that in a real life attack situation things would be up close and personal. Basically push at the attackers chest or face while you jam the gun in his belly and fire. A real eye opener for sure. Kinda defeats the purpose of those laser sights and the 40 foot line at the range don't it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,338 Posts
My son in law (US Army Special Forces badass) was working with my wife at a range. He had her stand right at the target and try to push the target (backboard) away with her left hand while drawing and shooting the target with her right. He told her that in a real life attack situation things would be up close and personal. Basically push at the attackers chest or face while you jam the gun in his belly and fire. A real eye opener for sure. Kinda defeats the purpose of those laser sights and the 40 foot line at the range don't it?
Note: don't "jam the gun in his belly" if you're carrying an autoloader - pressure on the muzzle may unlock the action and prevent it from firing. Still, if you're "up close and personal", laser sights will be pointless and "minute of belt buckle" is all the accuracy you'll be needing.

One of the things I was taught in training is that you need to keep your distance, if at all possible. Once the bad guy gets close enough to push back, they're close enough to grab your gun.

Something I was taught at the police academy: "There's a gun at every call you go to - yours!"



Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Something I was taught at the police academy: "There's a gun at every call you go to - yours!"
Never really thought of it that way but it is very very true. Applies big time to CC. Sucks to get shot by your own weapon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
All very true. Just curious, how has this affected your CCW gear choices? Are you getting different guns, holster types, etc?
Hey slimjim9. Yes, I have been revamping my whole CC kit with a mind towards heeding the lessons in the reading I have done. I am leaning more towards non-leather holsters now. My OWB leather holsters are wonderful but I have yet to discover one that works dependably well for me in IWB carry. I am liking what I am feeling when I use a kydex type holster. I have downsized to Alien Gear and Clinger products. Not too worried about the kydex leaving rub marks on my pistols. None of them are safe queens by any measure. Dependability, strength and ease of presentations have been nice so far.
Training at the range now is 75% point/instinctive practice from 7 yards and closer. The other 25% is basic marksmanship and sighted target work. This balance also works very well with my aging eyes. I have always believed that I should carry the largest caliber I can shoot well that can also be comfortably concealed. A full size 1911 .45 is my all time favorite but it is a little hard for me to carry IWB and remain comfortable with it all day. 9mm JHP types are my current go-to preference for IWB. Also I use pocket carry quite a lot when I must attend a day long business meeting. Finally the positioning of accessible firearms around the house has risen in importance. You can imagine that one for yourself. Best wishes in your own research. Pops.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,142 Posts
Thanks Pops. I've only been carrying since the spring. I agree it's a process. I pocket carry an LCR357 but it is a little harder than I would like to draw from jeans so I've been looking at perhaps a Clinger IWB and getting more docker-style pants. Also still working up a OWB rig for my Glock 19. Stay safe out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Great going slimjim9. I have relaxed fit jeans one size larger than what I normally wear and they already have a stretch waist. Pretty easy and comfy to IWB in these. I also prefer "docker" type trousers. They conceal very well. I also have just ordered a Clinger IWB for a compact 9mm. About 3 weeks out before delivery. Everything I have read about them is positive. Soon you too will have a drawer dedicated just to holsters. LOL Gotta be able to change into what you need for the situation. Keep up the good work and you too be safe out there! Pops
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top